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Pockets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:07 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 87
Location: Oklahoma

Learn to love the woods where grouse live and the friendship of a good dog.
Learn to appreciate simple things like the smell of molding leaves, old apples and grapes--the way the sunlight filters to the forest floor and the ears of your dog.
Learn to love to share these things with a friend of like mind and the smell and feel of a mud stained dog in the gloaming after a day afield.

If you have these things, then the rest will be what goes along.

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

wahoo wrote:
Any tips on etiquette when hunting over a dog? I know don't shoot below horizon, I assume you shoot at the blurr when it's blurring above horizontal?
I don't want to over think this, but there's got to be plenty of examples where a guest or client made a foolish gaff that should have been preventable if they were better schooled.


In a guest or Preserve experience, let the dog owner/handler know of your inexperience and follow his directions, to a 'T'.
No bird is worth an error of excitement.

I would also ask the procedure for flush......nothing brings more of a smile than when a hunter or two are backing a pointing dog...waiting for...something...to happen.

Birds blur but make haste with any shot slowly....you will have plenty of time, enough times, to find success enough.
Speed in shooting ruffed grouse is overrated....there will be times when one misses out and one should never dither but.....work to be present for all that surrounds the dead bird, first.
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TripleH
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 169
Location: Michigan

Quote:

Any tips on etiquette when hunting over a dog? I know don't shoot below horizon, I assume you shoot at the blurr when it's blurring above horizontal?
I don't want to over think this, but there's got to be plenty of examples where a guest or client made a foolish gaff that should have been preventable if they were better schooled.


As a non-dog owner, everytime I hunt I'm hunting over someone else's dogs.

The safety things should be a no brainer, mind your gun barrels....dogs are constantly moving in and out for water, checking in, a pat on the head, etc., you can feel your gun is pointed in a safe direction one moment and the next the dog can be too close for comfort or in line of fire.

Don't shoot under horizon, also never shoot if you aren't 100% sure where the dog may be. I've passed on more shots than I can count because I wasn't sure where the dog was. I usually get reassured (razzed) that there would have been no issue, but it's just not worth the risk. As my brother (owner of the 6 dogs I hunt over most often) often says "chicken is cheap". This can be particularly difficult if you are hunting with people who run dogs silent w/o bells.

Also pay attention to the terrain, the "horizon" isn't always where you think it is as you traverse the grouse woods as you ascend and descend valleys, coulets (sp?) and other rises. A bird can flush at what seems like a reasonable height from the ground and you can still be shooting dead at the side of terrain where a dog could be motoring by.

Those are the ones at the top of my list from a safety perspective.

Other than that, just always ask before you even start your walk "Can you tell me any particulars rules or preferences while I'm hunting over your dog?" and take guidance from the owner/handler. Depending on where the dog is in his/her career and training, Some folks may not want shots taken at bumped birds or birds that weren't staunchly pointed, some may be ok with a flushed bird as long as the dog didn't flush it (speaking of pointers obviously)...they may ask that you refrain from watering the dog, they may not care....they may share the commands the dog is to follow in the woods and ask that you only use those when communicating with the dog, they may ask that you refrain from communicating with it at all, they may not care if you read the dog the Gettysburg Address,,,,,,I've just learned it's always good to ask.

I also ask weird questions - hey what should I do if I see a porcupine on the ground? Skunk? If we are on a road and a vehicle is approaching should I hold his/her collar or just let you handle?

And at the end of the day, I always take the time to make sure and shake their hand, pat the dogs on the head, and thank them for the opportunity and privilege of hunting over their dog.

Some of that may seem to be overkill, but to someone like myself who isn't able to own a dog, it's always important to me to respect the trust others place in you when they take you for an "armed walk" behind one of their four legged family members.

Just my $.02, take or leave what you will.

Rob
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TripleH
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:38 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 169
Location: Michigan

Oh yeah - and my other piece of advice - don't save money on your footwear selection or you can be in for a long miserable day, (or an abbreviated one).

Favorite saying I have taken to repeating is "Legs kill grouse"
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

Advice?
Learn from the old guys, they know their shit.
Don't listen to old guys, they are full of shit.
Figure out where the average of the above two lies.
Very Happy

….Just like bird dog pups - exposure, exposure, exposure.
and,
….Just like a stick vs. an automatic: learn on a double trigger...……………….
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:07 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

Pockets wrote:
Learn to love the woods where grouse live and the friendship of a good dog.
Learn to appreciate simple things like the smell of molding leaves, old apples and grapes--the way the sunlight filters to the forest floor and the ears of your dog.
Learn to love to share these things with a friend of like mind and the smell and feel of a mud stained dog in the gloaming after a day afield.

If you have these things, then the rest will be what goes along.


I hunted birds over 40 days in MT this fall, Sept-Dec.
I killed a couple Ruffies, about 10 Blue Grouse, one Hun, and about 15 roosters.
If that doesn't illustrate why I agree so much with Pocket's "advice".............
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2798
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Some additional thoughts.

Never go in the woods without a Compass, know how to use it.

One of the safety practices some of the old timers use, is to announce at the vehicle that their gun is loaded, while initially loading it. In my Grandfather era this was standard practice in our mountains, for some reason the tradition has started to fade away.

One of the other practices he enforced was to never stack a loaded gun against a tree, for any reason. Dogs have a tendency to bump against them.

One of my big rules as a gun dog trainer/Grouse hunter is to never give another mans dog orders/commands while you are hunting, leave the owner handle his own dog, unless it's an emergency situation.

If you have somebody hunting with you make sure he understands that a gun dog from time to time will brush up against him, this can be a dangerous situation if the hunter is not accustom to this friendly event from a gun dog. People un-accustom to this can actually be knocked down, with a loaded gun in their hands.

When a stranger is hunting close to you and your partner, always make sure your hunting partner knows the stranger is in the area. When approaching another hunter it's a good idea to break the Breach on your double gun.

There are many things to learn as a Grouse hunter, the more you and your partner hunt together the more you understand each others ways. Mentors pass education and skills down as people learn to Grouse hunt, a mentor can be a big factor in a Grouse hunters life.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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wahoo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

Thanks fellas, your advise comes across as very sound and thought provoking. Some of it would seem "common sense" others very insightful. All of it golden.

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PRONGHORNSOUTH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 269
Location: Chocolate City, Florida

Dave in Maine wrote:

Learn to fall in such a way that your body, not your gun, takes the damage.

Be humble. (If you need help with that, the birds are all too happy to provide it.)


Now THAT'S funny! Laughing
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2798
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Pronghornsouth,

Actually he is being serious, especially on a snow covered mountain side, knowing when and how to fall with a loaded gun in your hands ends up being very important. Sooner or later every Grouse hunter takes a spill, learning how to do a controlled fall to safe guard both yourself, your partner and your loaded gun is actually important knowledge.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Maine

I cannot tell you how many times over the last near-40 years I have uttered silent prayers of thanks for the blackhats who ran ground week at Airborne School, where that entire week is devoted to doing pushups and learning to fall. Front, back, left side, right side, quartering - you name it. One foot off the ground, 4 feet off the ground, moving. Every different way to fall. When to fight it, when not. When to keep your feet under you, when to just flop. I can't tell you how many broken bones and serious injuries I've avoided, the training at Mother Benning's Home for Wayward Youth having imprinted into my brain what is now an instinctual knowing how to fall in such a way I don't get hurt, and my gun (or bamboo fly rod) remains undamaged.

My parents thought I was nuts for doing it. The savings in medical bills alone made it worthwhile.

Falling down is easy. Getting up unhurt, not necessarily so.

I always utter a couple silent prayers before tossing the shells into my gun. One for the game. One for a dear friend, fellow Boy Scout and hunter, a far better outdoorsman than I, who was run down and killed by a drunk at 19 and never got to enjoy the hunts and fishing I get now. One for the blackhats as I'm getting up from a tumble.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2798
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Dave in Maine,

I attended that military jump school also, I have thanked them many times in my prayers also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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PRONGHORNSOUTH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 269
Location: Chocolate City, Florida

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Pronghornsouth,

Actually he is being serious, especially on a snow covered mountain side, knowing when and how to fall with a loaded gun in your hands ends up being very important. Sooner or later every Grouse hunter takes a spill, learning how to do a controlled fall to safe guard both yourself, your partner and your loaded gun is actually important knowledge.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Safety is always foremost. But it was presented in a line of chuckles.
And its STILL funny! Cool
Lighten up a little..
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:57 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2798
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Pronghornsouth,

I thought you were just messing around, however many people are unaware that falling with a loaded gun is a learned operation, and I wanted to make them aware of that fact.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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PRONGHORNSOUTH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 269
Location: Chocolate City, Florida

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Pronghornsouth,

I thought you were just messing around, however many people are unaware that falling with a loaded gun is a learned operation, and I wanted to make them aware of that fact.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


You are correct Sir. Nothings more important than getting your crew home safe.
Not at any cost.
All is well
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