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Chukar60
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Idaho

I am curious as to what the difference is between the French and American Brittany.
I have 3 American Brittany. I keep hearing people rave about the French Britts but have never been around one much less hunted over them.
Any information would be appreciated.
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Gil S
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:02 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Lowcountry Ga.

I've read that the American Brittanys were bred for larger size and longer legs for greater range than their French cousins in order to be followed by bobwhite hunters on horseback here in the South. Don't know how accurate that is, but I've read that in more than one place. However among my friends I know of a couple of American Britts in the 25 lb. weight range which is closer to French Britt size than most American Britts. Breed standards in French Britts allow black in the color scheme including the coat and nose. Not so in the American. The two American Britt females in my MuttPak aka BrittCom are right at 39 and 44 lbs. in peak shape as the bird season winds down here in Ga. I follow them on either Russells or Wellingtons depending on conditions. Gil
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Chukar60
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Idaho

Was curious. Bird dogs always interest me.
I run 3 American Britts. One male that is large for the breed. 48-50# and very long legs. A female tri color that we call the pocket pointer. She is small, 28# in season.
The last is a 9 month old white and orange female. Think she will be lucky to top 35# when full grown.
The pup is showing signs of being the best of the 4 I have owned.
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4setters
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Don't want to hi-jack Citori Feather's post on buying a French Brit, but Gil S and others described the dog above, with tri-color as a descriptor. Find attached a pic of a young male French Brit owned by my old bird hunting buddy from the 1970s-80s Steve Chaney, who now lives in Colorado. He invited me to hunt Mearn's last winter. Oh my! The dog worked close, pointed several times and hunted dead bird well, even though this was one of his first hunts. Small dog, probably about 25 pounds.

His dog was bred by Don Rice of Arizona (http://www.suncountrybretons.com/). I have no association with Mr. Rice, and CF had already purchased a dog before I saw this thread; just passing along information.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/24wdxpo] [/url]mearns3 by Michael Widner, on Flickr

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Having trained both these dogs the one thing beside the size and slightly different coloring is temperament. The French has it all over the American Brit. The French is very biddable, works close and is a serious wild bird finder. Who instinctively works with its master. The American Brit is a decent Quail dog, sometimes very hard headed and if you get one from a FT strain, they tend to hunt for themselves and not the master. The men who own these dogs are very attached to the individual breed they own.

If I owned one to hunt Grouse, it would be the Frenchie.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

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Gil S
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:32 pm  Reply with quote
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I suppose I am fortunate if Dave's assessment is correct. It has not been my experience. However, the handful of American Britts I have hunted with, more than a half dozen, have been outstanding. My two females are biddable, were easy to train and constantly come back to check in regardless if whistled in or not. The older dog took more time to train, probably because of my inexperience. The second one, other than being taught to come when called and "whoa" on command, was largely self taught hunting with the older dog and both back naturally and retrieve. The Britt breed is often noted for being "soft". I think I could clobbler either of mine with a 2 x 4 board and they'd wag their tails. Not that I would, however. They are woodcock specialists, but love quail, wild or released. Gil
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gil,

It was not my intent to put down on any American Brit dog lines, I was doing a comparison of the French and the American.

Much of these genetic instinctive traits come from certain lines, with the American Brit Dog. There are individual Brit dogs from certain American Brit lines that due very well, you probably were fortunate to have picked from them, and got biddable animals.

The French Brit is a biddable dog no matter the Breed line, a good 90% of the time.

It's like comparing Ryman Setter Dogs to other English Setter lines, 90% of the time the Ryman Setter Dog is the more biddable dog line. Expand this a little further, my Gordon Setter Grouse pup is a little terrorist compared to my Ryman Setter pups. It comes down to Genetic repeat breeding.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

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fourtrax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:11 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 827
Location: N. Shore, mn

Of my 4 dogs, three are French Britt. One is a rescue (had another till 2017 that was a rescue. Both the rescue French Britts have made excellent bird dogs. The one I lost in 2017 (cancer age 12) made the journey from not knowing a wild bird when he saw one to being an excellent Ruffed Grouse & Phez pointy dog. Serious hunt dead dog for wounded birds and a solid pointy dog on both species. It's not every dog that makes that journey successfully. The other rescue Fr. Britt is an excellent Phez dog. Points them close by & staunchly. He has never really figured out Ruffed Grouse well. He finds them and flash points them, sometimes even staunch. Mostly he's a work in progress but still fun to hunt over. I believe the breed standard for males is 35 lbs and 21" at the shoulder with the classic "cobby" conformation dimensions of height at shoulder = length from front of chest to rump.

The "work in progress" dog with his first grouse pointed in 2009.

and the org & white little bird machine lost in 2017
great water retrieve on a wounded rooster clear across a duck lake


on the job


companion


last grouse shot over this boy. Cancer was advancing in his l.f. leg.
Took him about 5 minutes to point this bird.


Yes, I would buy another in a heart beat. I will always have at least one Breton around as long as I still know what a dog is. Both these dogs are / were good family / companion dogs. The org. & white dog was the best grouse dog in the kennel is sorely missed. Had him for 10 years & three days.

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Montana16
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Eastern Washington

I have two Frenchies and really enjoy the dogs. Both dogs are from the same breeder (Hyalite Kennels, Butch Nelson). My veteran (9.5 years) came from Irish blood lines and is fairly large for the breed at 60 lbs. My teenage pup (1.5 years) has a mother recently imported from France and is no more than 35 pounds.
Both dogs are very loving. My pup had his first season this year and made several solid points on roosters. Picture is with his first bird. They definitely can be encouraged to hunt close.






Last edited by Montana16 on Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 am  Reply with quote
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I'd like to post some pics of my "Frenchie Girl" but can't seem to do so since I gave up on photobucket.

Matt
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:15 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Citori FL,

Try using jpgbox.com, quality host set up, and cost nothing.
I use it all the time.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith man

Just brought this picture from jpgbox.com to the 16 forum, does work well.

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/56234_800x600/] [/URL]

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Chukar60
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:20 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Idaho

I cant speak to the attributes of a French Britt, but can attest that the American Britt from FT lines require some work to get them to consistently work at quail range.
All 4 of the Americans that I have had required some work to get them to range at 60-70 yards.
As for a tendency to hunt for themselves? This is something I see with lots of dogs, and breed does not seem to matter.
I guide bird hunters and get a mix of people with and without dogs. Some really good dogs and some not so good. My experience is that a dog that hunts for itself is a product of the owners hunting habits.
The dog that hunts for itself almost always has an owner that shoots at every bird that flushes within range with no regard for their dog’s efforts.
The dog soon learns that it is every hunter for themselves and returns the owner’s bad manners in spades.
Young dogs need time to connect the dots of finding and pointing birds, the flush, shot and retrieve. When a dog is young I wont shoot a bird that it has not pointed. The dog needs to understand that it’s reward only comes after it points and holds the bird until it can be flushed, shot and then retrieved.
As the dog gains maturity and confidence this practice can be relaxed some.
If you aren’t going to shoot pointed birds the majority of the time, you may be better served with a flushing breed than a pointer.
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fourtrax
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 827
Location: N. Shore, mn

Chukar60 wrote:
I cant speak to the attributes of a French Britt, but can attest that the American Britt from FT lines require some work to get them to consistently work at quail range.
All 4 of the Americans that I have had required some work to get them to range at 60-70 yards.
As for a tendency to hunt for themselves? This is something I see with lots of dogs, and breed does not seem to matter.
I guide bird hunters and get a mix of people with and without dogs. Some really good dogs and some not so good. My experience is that a dog that hunts for itself is a product of the owners hunting habits.
The dog that hunts for itself almost always has an owner that shoots at every bird that flushes within range with no regard for their dog’s efforts.
The dog soon learns that it is every hunter for themselves and returns the owner’s bad manners in spades.
Young dogs need time to connect the dots of finding and pointing birds, the flush, shot and retrieve. When a dog is young I wont shoot a bird that it has not pointed. The dog needs to understand that it’s reward only comes after it points and holds the bird until it can be flushed, shot and then retrieved.
As the dog gains maturity and confidence this practice can be relaxed some.
If you aren’t going to shoot pointed birds the majority of the time, you may be better served with a flushing breed than a pointer.



+++1 in spades

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:07 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

I agree 100% that training and adhering to only shooting pointed birds is very very important until the dog is fully trained. If an owner does not repetitively work his dog to assure success it is the owner/hunter who is causing the problem.

However the other end of this is genetics, when a dog is bred to do a certain job a certain way, this can be very hard to over come, purchase a biddable animal in the 1st place from a legitimate breeding program and you are much farther ahead.

Not that an FT dog can not adapt to a good training program when done correctly, however if the breeding program repetitively produces a certain kind animal that works with the hunter, such as the Small Munsterlander for hundreds of years, you can darn sure count on purchasing a dog who works with the master as a companion hunter.

Training is still necessary, however the dogs genetic imprint for hunting with its' master as a true companion is making the over all job a lot easier and a lot more pleasant for the owner/trainer.

Fighting genetic imprint is in my opinion not the way to go, unless you have some great affinity for a certain dog breed, then you better understand what you are getting into as you train. Many people accept and do this all the time. This is a personal dog owner choice, if you choose to do this IMO get professional training help and follow the training program for best results.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:00 am  Reply with quote
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I've been remiss in posting photos of my new French Brittany pup, (Ophir).
Thanks for all the help from members in helping me with Tinypic.com!

Matt





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