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Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:37 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1376
Location: Northern Illinois

Griffon wrote:
Try a app called onX maps to find landowners. App comes up like google earth showing outlines of landowners property and names/addresses . Maine was so so on landowner due to poor digital info at town offices, out west is way better per customer service rep for onX maps. There is map on their site showing accuracy state by state. Also works as a basic gps for tracking location and movement. Think they give a 7 day free trial. Maybe helpful. Like people said landowners pay taxes,we’’re guest.


The RGS worked with onX and they had a trial period last fall. My son tried it out in the U.P. when he was up to visit and it worked quite well in many areas and not so well in others. But, it looked like a nice app for the money. If you need cell phone coverage for it to work then that would explain why it didn’t work in many areas. Once you leave the towns in the U.P. you lose coverage quickly. For the most part the plat books get the job done and land owners up there are friendly and are mainly concerned that you don’t accidentally shoot at their camps, or them for that matter.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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robp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:11 pm  Reply with quote
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North Dakota is a little different from other states. Most farms are large and have pieces of property all over the place. Land owners typically don't live anywhere near them some times in town some times out of town or out of state. Using on X or a plots map and phone book will get you land owners addresses and phone numbers good luck getting them to answer an unknown phone number
The majority of my hunting in ND is on non posted land although I have a couple spots that are posted and I have gained permission. Typically I like to hunt small ditches and creek beds These spots change from year to year depending on the weather sometimes they can be farmed some times they can't. When they can't they get over grown and making decent habitat of upland birds. i love the freedom to drive around and find spots . If the cover looks good and it's not posted it can be hunted. This gives me a sense of adventure and really adds to my experience. There have be days where i have ended up over 200 miles from where i started with a mixed bag of upland birds and that is pretty darne cool. I have discovered spots i have hunted for 20 years that have never been posted and the person farming the land has seen me out there and waived at me. I have knocked on doors as a courtesy if spots are close to farms. The attitude seems to be yeah go ahead and hunt it why are you bothering me. i have never been kicked off of had any confrontation about hunting non posted or posted land on ND I would have a hard time duplicating that if the trespass law changes
North Dakota law is pretty simple. There just has to be one corner or entrance posted and you need to stay off unless you have permission. You can't trespass on unharvested fields regardless if its posted or not. It's not some free for all. The penalties are high if you get caught, like loosing your nation wide hunting privileges for a year and a steep fine.That's not a joke either I know two people who got caught and they both lost their hunting privileges. It's worked for 80+ years


Last edited by robp on Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Griffon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 429
Location: Maine

So here’s my story. I was a conservation officer for the State of Maine for 33 years. I come home from work during deer season to see a hunter in orange down my woods road looking for deer. The front piece of my land was posted due to our horses. I approach a man and his 10 year old son and ask if he has permission to hunt the property he states yes I asked the landowner, I ask who is the landowner? I don't remember his name. I advise him that I am the landowner. Oh he says. Right next to them is a pile of apples in the midsts of a pine grove. Whose apples are these I ask dad, I don’t know he responds as he and his son are squirming like worms on a hook. Baiting deer in Maine is illegal. Turns out he lived right up the road. If he had asked I would have been more than happy to put his son on a deer,instead they were asked to leave and not return. So l would say take the time needed to find the landowner and ask. It’s all up to the hunter not the landowner. If you can’t find him move on. Stories like this is why many people post their property. End of story.

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mtbirder
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

Griffon relates a story from an incident in Maine.
Sneem says how law is in Kansas.
Danny Pratt talks about Michigan and who pays the taxes for it.
This is a piece of North Dakota legislation. One which has effects on North Dakota hunters and changes an almost 100 year hunting tradition as well as the actual STATUTE governing that tradition.
I find it sad (for birdhunters) that most of the responses on this thread are first, from non NDakotans' - and second, espousing an attitude in support of the change.
I have no dog in the fight, I do not hunt ND. However, as Pinecreek/Dave so eloquently stated - wildlife management laws are up to the actual state's jurisdiction.
This thread is an eye opener for those of us involved in Western hunting issues and how attitudes affect what we are currently facing - while constantly being under attack from conservative politicians and their anti public hunting tradition stance.
Not interested in a political debate - those are a waste of time and peoples' fragile egos and feelings get riled.
That being said - can't really see how I can work the 16 gauge into this. I like my 16's, I don't like TODAY'S conservative politicians........
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last dollar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas

The way I read the OP, it did not restrict the answers or comments to only Montana residents. So!.
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

last dollar wrote:
The way I read the OP, it did not restrict the answers or comments to only Montana residents. So!.


Reread robp's simple and concise description of ND's current statute and understand that it is a law which benefits WE hunters and is under attack by those who have other interest than ours.
last dollar, I do not believe I suggested excluding anyone's comment(s)…...
If you would have posted a similar concern about in issue in Kansas which had the ability to affect a long standing hunting tradition in your home state, I would have responded the same.
I have spent almost 35 years working for hunters and anglers, as well as the resources we are privileged with, and the access to those rersources.
I spend every day wrapped up in these issues. I find it disheartening that hunters insist that any attack on our 2'nd amendment rights is "a slippery slope" - but so many are indifferent, at best, towards other threats which affect our ability to use our 16 bores while pursuing our hunting interests.
My #1 concern is for the continued best management of our resources and access to them - including keeping the North American Model of Wildlife Management alive and well. Not turning the American sportsman's experience into something European...….
I'll bow out...….
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last dollar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas

Did you used to post as "Grouse Guy"?
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Because I worked closely with RGS and the PGC my views on this matter maybe a lot different than many other hunters. My response saying that it's a state resident matter, I truly believe. This hunting matter has nothing to due with the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, which has nothing why so ever to due with state hunting laws.

I do understand that some of the state money comes form out of state hunting licenses, however it is still my belief that out of state hunting people should have no say as to the changes in laws of a state where they do not reside. Only state residents should have that responsibility. The western tradition of hunting must remain or be changed by the residents of each of those great states, no outsider should have the right in influence or help change any game laws. Whether you are a conservative or a liberal in this particular matter should not matter, unless you are a state resident, and have a vote in that particular state.

I do Grouse hunt in many different states where I am not a legal resident, I follow the game laws set down by those individual states, I do not try to change or influence their change. I am grateful I am allowed to Grouse hunt where I do not reside. I am a guest, and I act like it by following the game laws of those states.

Even in NY with its Unconstitutional gun laws I follow their state laws while hunting there, as much as I hate leaving my hand gun at home, I do it. However I do not hunt in NY very often any more, because of those Unconstitutional laws.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

robp wrote:
North Dakota is a little different from other states. Most farms are large and have pieces of property all over the place. Land owners typically don't live anywhere near them some times in town some times out of town or out of state. Using on X or a plots map and phone book will get you land owners addresses and phone numbers good luck getting them to answer an unknown phone number
The majority of my hunting in ND is on non posted land although I have a couple spots that are posted and I have gained permission. Typically I like to hunt small ditches and creek beds These spots change from year to year depending on the weather sometimes they can be farmed some times they can't. When they can't they get over grown and making decent habitat of upland birds. i love the freedom to drive around and find spots . If the cover looks good and its not posted it can be hunted. This gives me a sense of adventure and really adds to my experience. There have be days where i have ended up over 200 miles from where i started with a mixed bag of upland birds and that is pretty dare cool. I have discovered spots i have hunted for 20 years that have never been posted and the person farming the land has seen me out there and waived at me. I have knocked on doors as a courtesy if spots are close to farms. The attitude seems to be yeah go ahead and hunt it why are you bothering me. i have never been kicked off of had any confrontation about hunting non posted or posted land on ND I would have a hard time duplicating that if the trespass law changes
North Dakota law is pretty simple. There just has to be one corner or entrance posted and you need to stay off unless you have permission. You can't trespass on unharvested fields regardless if its posted or not. It's not some free for all. The penalties are high if you get caught, like loosing your nation wide hunting privileges for a year and a steep fine.That's not a joke either I know two people who got caught and they both lost their hunting privileges. It's worked for 80+ years


And we have a winner...

Moved here from NC, was in Asheville for twilight tour before I retired from the Navy stayed there 4 years after. And lived in Currituck County for 8 years before I moved to Asheville. Paint a purple stripe on a tree in ND? When I got divorced a friend of mine at work who was from ND told me there was a pretty girl behind every tree in ND and laughed an laughed. Although there are plenty of fence posts in the Dakotas and they usually put a tire on them and paint no hunting if they don't want you to. It is a different world out here. And compared to the East Coast in general.

That includes Pa. and NY. Hunted both growing up. It is totally different out here.

A section is 1 mile by 1 mile. I have plot books and know how to use them. But even on NoDak website most residents hit the nail on the head when they say 3 out of 4 major land owners in ND are in Az. And in SD we have access to more than 10 sections after many years. That land owner is from Boston and a retired lawyer.

It is absolutely a bill to take away hunting rights from those that don't want anyone to hunt or kill animals. And kudos to Rob for posting this. It is still in hearings send your emails. If you actually care and understand the situation out there.
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

last dollar wrote:
Did you used to post as "Grouse Guy"?


Even though I've been hunting grouse for over forty years and fit the name - nope.
Just a Western bird. birddog, 16 gauge, habitat, conservation, and access enthusiast who has been intricately involved in Western sportsman's issues since the mid 80's.
Retiring from the professional side this summer - enabling me to put more personal time into these issues.
Which I will continue as long as I can breath - simply because a lotta really good people came before me, providing the opportunity and privilege I have been graced with.
Here's some great reading on these topics if anyone is so inclined....
https://www.fieldandstream.com/what-are-we-doing-to-our-public-lands-and-waters
As American outdoorsmen/women, I wish us all luck......
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last dollar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas

An interesting article and I agree with most of it BUT it has little to do with the subject of this post. This post is about PRIVATE not PUBLIC lands. The farmer rancher is the ONLY one who should be able to decide who uses his land and for what. He/she OWNS it, works it, lives on it, depends on it...pays for it.
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Gil S
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:20 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Lowcountry Ga.

Georgia has had a similar law on the books as long as I can remember. All private lands are automatically posted and one must have written permission on them while hunting. This relieves the landowner from putting up signs and registering the posting with the county clerk's office. Folks still put up signs to keep people out. It's a safety issue as much as a property right and gives them a protection with teeth from poachers. Typically, if a game warden is asked to routinely patrol properties, the owner must agree to prosecute trespassers. Gil
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

I linked the article as it is indicative of the cumulative negative pressures on hunting AND fishing. This ND issue is also indicative of the larger picture.
I know countless guys who have hunted ND for many years and have NEVER heard a one of them speak of the unpopularity or negative landowner attitude of ND's current and very long standing trespass/hunting law. Not one.
My guess that this is just another special interest driven legislative method of continuing to erode our hunting heritage and tradition.
This is way way bigger than the actual issue itself.
It WILL be decided in ND by the ND legislature and will be dependent on the input that body gets from the public and the lobbying bodies involved in the issue.
Probably (?) will pass and an almost century old ND hunting tradition will change.
If so, hunters will lose out. As a body we seem to take this stuff lying down.....

What's this have to do with a 16 gauge shotgun?? I'm a 16 gauge enthusiast because of hunting and access to hunting. Without those two - I will not be a 16 gauge enthusiast.

I offer a very halfhearted apology to those on here who don't like this stuff on "Gun Talk". I get it.
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last dollar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas

We are kinda beating this to death. Fact is,passage of this bill will NOT make you lose your ability to go hunting. It may introduce another step. that of getting permission to do so. That is NOT an insurmountable problem.
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dannypratt
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:28 am  Reply with quote
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I wasnt going to reply again, but I cant help it.

I dont care what state you live in or where your planning on hunting. This is far beyond the point. I'm not interested in "how it is out here" kind of talk. That's not acceptable because ultimately that isnt the issue.
Let's look at this from a reasonable perspective and rethink it for a moment. Here is a practical example.

You own 2500 acres of land. Any state, any reason. You pay the taxes on the land. It belongs to you alone. You maintain the land, or if out of state, perhaps you lease it to a rancher, or oil company, or mining operation etc. Joe Hunter comes along and assumes, "hmm, not mine, not posted, looks good. I'll use this mans land for my own gain, and best of all, I dont have to pay a dime. Or even be polite and ask permission. It's not mine, its privately owned but belongs to everyone!" Now you appear and find Joe Hunter. On your land, that you bought, that you pay taxes on. If your being honest right now, I dont believe you would be very happy to find Joe Hunter.

There is absolutely no difference between hunting on a piece of land you do not own and have no permission to be on then there is if you simply decided youd like to live there, rent free, and build a house or set up camp etc.
The absolute bottom line is this: It isnt YOUR land, you have no rights of any kind that just allow you to trespass. Period.

Just because your a bird hunter, doesnt mean that you automatically are trespassing less.
Your just using someone else's property....just like Mr Snowmobile, Mr ATV, Mr Squats.


Last edited by dannypratt on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total

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