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Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Here is something I found recently in the realm of fixer uppers, a 1911 L.C. Smith 00 grade. It appears that the wood is from a grade 3 gun and is marked so under the damaged butt plate. Current I have an unfitted recycled recoil pad on her to correct L.O.P. and make it shooting a bit more pleasant. The stock set has been refinished to within an inch of it's life, I will be addressing those issues best I can.

The bores are very clean and the gun came to me with 2 3/4" chambers/ long forcing cones. The chamber work is pretty good, but I will take the cones to a higher polish. General metal condition is O.K. Somebody buffed the surface rust away and that shows, but thankfully, no edges were rounded off. I will be refinishing the metal and that will take a lot of time and handwork to do right.

The gun balances far better than my Featherweight field grade and weighs less too. I have run 150 rounds of 5/8 oz. 8 1/2 shot down the tubes at clays and am falling in love with this thing. The right barrel measures out to .004" worth of choke and the left squeezes .010". Both bores measure .652". Gun was listed as mod & full! Go figure. It looks like I have a new grouse and quail gun. I'm happy with that.
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Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1695 Location: Minnesota

Good find. It will be fun to follow your progress on the project. You say it balances better and weighs less than your field grade FW. How much does it weigh and how long are the barrels?

Nice
Thank you for sharing
Mike

Guest

Those older LC Smiths are nice.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

28" barrels, just like the FW. The FW weighs 6 3/4 lbs. and this one is just over 6 1/2 lbs. The difference in weight is small, but feels greater due to the muzzle heavy barrels of the FW. That raised rib on the FW probably has a lot to do with that.

WyoChukar,

Great old 00 bird gun, you will love this pre 13 gun for shooting Grouse & Woodcock. I take it the gun is a 16 gauge, which would have had 2 9/16" chambers originally. Prior owner may have opened the Chambers to 2 3/4". No problem shooting modern Nitro 2 3/4 shells out of the 00 guns.

Restore the gun and hunt her hard!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Oh I intend to. Yes, 16 gauge girl. I like the Pre 13's a good bit more than later guns. I love the graceful roll along the top of the side plates. Another big plus is the heavier receiver.

Yes I said I like the heavier receiver better folks! Now before anyone concludes that the cheese has finally slid off my cracker, let me explain. The British long ago discovered that a gun feels livelier in the hands if more of its weight lies between said hands. With regular frame Elsies this is often the case when you combine lighter struck barrels with a heavier frame. More of the weight does rest between the hands and this gun leaps to the shoulder compared to my FW, even though the difference in weight is only a few ounces. I have noticed a little of the opposite with some of the newer aluminum frame O/U's.

I know I will love it for grouse. It may be a while before I get to go someplace with woodcock, but I'll take your word for it!

WyoChukar,

I agree, I not only like the Pre 13 guns better they are better made also. Our family guns are mostly Pre 13 double guns. In fact the only difference between the high grade L.C. Smith Pre 13 guns and the 00 is the engraving and sometimes the Jeweled interval sides. Our family was big on Special Order guns with Kraus & Spangler Engraving. Order a 00 and have it engraved to what ever level the purchaser wanted. My 2 Barrel 00 has #1 Gun Engraving by Kraus, and upgraded wood.

That wood would look great on the 00! IMO you could turn that 00 into one of the best guns you own with that wood.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Nice looking gun. I don’t know much about American Classics, but that looks like a really nice stick of wood for a field grade Smith.

Good Hunting,
Mike

Chicago,

It's not a Field Grade, the Field Grade guns were made later, it's a 00 pre 1913 gun, made to best quality standards L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms ever produced. The hand fit and finish of a Pre 13 L.C. Smith guns made them equal to the high grade L.C. Smith Guns. When you purchase a pre 1913 gun of any grade, you are purchasing a hand fit and finished double gun.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Click on the picture to see Kraus's incredible German style Pigeon Grade engraving on the Pre 13 L.C. Smith gun. The only difference in the 00 gun is the lack of engraving, every pre 13 L.C. Smith gun was made with the identical high grade quality, by the same Master Gun Makers working for Hunter Arms.

Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

So how can one tell if it’s a pre 13 gun? Serial numbers?

wahoo,

For those who do not know L.C. Smith guns, the SN is one of the best ways to identify a pre 13 gun, the early safety is usually a dead give away as to what era the gun was produced by Hunter Arms also.

Bill Brophy & John Houchins books give good educational info on the different guns, numbers and names, with full descriptions of each gun and when they were produced, thru the years.

There are also many Special Order Guns that were not recorded, some people refer to them as Executive Guns, because all documentation was shipped to the purchaser with the gun.

The Cody Museum is the legal historical home of record for L.C. Smith Guns, Bill Brophy set it up by donating the legal documents from both the Hunter Arms & Marlin Companies. Bill Brophy was the L.C. Smith Historian of record while he was alive. Historical letters of identification can be acquired from the Cody Museum for a nominal cost. Other sources are not the legal historical home of L.C. Smith Guns, and legally mean nothing, even though in many cases the information maybe historically correct.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Another detail, I am not aware of any Pre 13 Featherweight guns. The L.C. Smith Collectors site has a bunch of info...and photos. Search "L.C Smith grades" online and it should take you there. The pics are worth seeing. Pre 13 guns in my opinion have much nicer scratchings.

The wood on my 00 is grade #3 wood. Did it come from the factory that way? I have no idea.

WyoChukar,

The FW guns started to hit the market in 1913, however there were some pre-production guns made. From 1913 to 1915 a good potion of the Monogram Grade guns were FW guns. Back in 1900 - 1905 the light weight Monogram guns were made with Krupp barrels. These were not FW guns, however they weighed less than many of the FW frame guns when the FW guns hit the market. The Monogram gun was the 3rd highest quality gun made at that time.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

How late were the regular frame guns made? Didn't they start phasing them out in 1913?