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Gentlemen,

The Antique Crescent Hammer Gun I am going to Grouse hunt with can not take the Fiocchi shell pressure that I usually use for my 2nd barrel on my L.C. Smith guns.

I am looking for a low pressure load that I can use out of the 2nd barrel of this old Hammer gun that will still put me in the 1,300 FPS range. Is there a 16 gauge load that has maybe a 1 Oz shot of #6's, with some kind a Windjammer, and Unique Powder to keep the pressure low for use in this old 16 gauge Hammer gun? Or am I asking the impossible? If not I will stay with the SpredR #6's.

Would appreciate your recommendations.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Close??

http://www.rstshells.com/store/p/119-16-Ga-2-1/2-Spreader-Lite-Vel-1150-7/8-oz-Load-Box.aspx

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

This came from the Parker site ( 2012 ) awhile back . I know not 1300 fps but that may be hard to do with 1oz and low pressure .

" This was worked up for me by Precision Reloading. I like one ounce in the 16 for doves and rabbits. Thought I would share it as dove season approaches and we are loading up.

2.5 INCH UNPRIMED CHEDDITE HULL

209 WINCHESTER PRIMER

18 GRAINS LONGSHOT

2116 WAD

1 OUNCE SHOT

1200 FPS

7270 PSI AVERAGE PRESSURE

Fold crimp

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. "

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

Dave,I have a old ballistic products manual.The master pheasant load calls for a Fiocchi hull SG 16 wad 30 grains of blue dot for a 1 ounce load at 1350,616 Fiocchi primer,8800p......I never tried it good luck Aurelio

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

Dave that was for a 2 3/4 hull

Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Posts: 63 Location: United States

25grns Longshot + sporting 16 wad + Win209 = 7000 psi .If the problem is recoil then you need to shoot an 1165 fps load or a 7/8oz load

Skeettx,

Mike I already use the SpredR shells, thanks for the thought however.

Gentlemen,

Remember this old gun has 2 1/2" Chambers, I should have put that in the original post. This is a 100 year old Crescent Hammer gun, not a High Grade L.C. Smith, I will definitely start out with the SpredR loads, however I thought there might be a load some body came up with for low pressure high FPS 2 1/2" shells.

Having rolled my own 2 3/4 shells for my L.C. Smith Pigeon grade gun for years, I thought maybe there was a 16 gauge low pressure load similar to it, that would be safe for my old Crescent Hammer gun, love to have something under 7,300 that would travel at around 1280 - 1300 with 7/8 or 1 oz of # 6's. Mike's recommendation for the SpredR's is were I am right now.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 962 Location: Minnesota

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

I assume that you are loading 2 1/2" hulls. In a 2 3/4" hull you can easily load 1300 fps 1 oz. ammo at well under 8,000 psi using Longshot powder. With a 2 1/2" hull that's going to be a tall order. To be honest, I wouldn't fret over the velocity. the only time I intentionally load something at 1300 fps or higher, is when I need to open up my patterns.

As far as killing a bird goes, a load sent out at 1200 fps kills 'em just as dead at 40 yards as a 1300 fps load will. The extra speed diminishes quickly down range and if the pellets get deformed more trying to get that extra speed (they do), then the less aerodynamic projectiles actually shed velocity more rapidly. In other words, don't worry about it. A lot of the "power" of high velocity loads, lies between one's ears.

Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would just shoot the standard 1 oz. RST #6's in the left barrel and be done with it. Odds of getting a clear shot at a ruff further out than those will do the job is pretty slim.

Aurelio,

No can do that load is way to high in pressure for this old Crescent Hammer gun,
thanks for the thought however.

df,

I fully understand your thinking!

fn16gauge,

Have you ever tested and used that particular shell configuration, it looks decent for sure?

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

WyoChukar,

I fully understand what you are saying, these shells would be for the under the 2nd trigger, mostly for shooting thru the edges of Hemlock trees, thru Grape vines and other heavy foliage and still being able to down the Grouse. Having used Fiocchi shells for this @ 1300 FPS for many years now, I was hoping to come up with something similar, around 1280 FPS, at under 7,300 pressure wise. I know this is a big order, fn16ga's is close to what I was looking to achieve.

I know I will not attain the 1300 FPS with 1 1/8 oz that I get from the High Grade Fiocchi shells they are 2 3/4" shells, the pressure is way to great for this old Crescent Hammer gun any way. It may very well be the #6 SpredR loads will have to suffice.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

fn16's recipe is perfectly suitable for your needs. 20 fps won't break any sticks for you, so don't worry about it. Years ago I wanted to see if 15-20 fps would even break a tightly stretched tissue. It didn't. 20 fps at the muzzle is probably closer to 5 fps at 30 yards anyway and shot to shot variations are going to be greater than 20 fps too.

For that matter, anything thicker than a leaf is going to slow or deflect your shot enough, or stop it altogether, to the point of allowing a grouse to fly on. Even pine needles will do it. I have sprayed a lot of evergreen needles with #5 and had blues or ruffs keep right on cruising. The best remedy for shooting through dense deciduous foliage is more shot, but that can get messy on a close shot in the clear.

RST has a 1 ounce load of Copper 6s @ 1200, 2 1/2" case......I suspect the pressure may be acceptable, one could inquire.

Other than that, a fella might find an old Stihl load of lubaloy 6s in an old sporting goods store, to make the hemlock chips fly.

WyoChukar,

You are absolutely correct, however with only 7/8 oz of shot at 1150 FPS, no way am I pushing the heavy foliage. The 1st Barrel in a semi-open forest puts the grouse down pretty well, I was hoping for a 1 oz 1280 FPS 2nd Barrel shell for this old Hammer gun.

The 2 3/4 Fiocchi 1 1/8 @ 1300 really gets the job done in my high Grade L.C. Smith 16 gauge gun. You are absolutely correct it's the addition of more shot that penetrates the foliage, especially at 1300FPS. This allows me to penetrate the thick foliage and kill the Grouse outright.

It maybe impossible for this old Crescent Hammer gun to due the job of a serious 16 Gauge L.C. Smith double gun. I may have to settle for the SpredR loads in both Barrels. #8's under the 1st trigger, #6's under the 2nd trigger, with basically the same low FPS. In this case it will never be the Grouse killing gun the L.C. Smith 16 happens to be. I guesss I knew that all along however.

Now you see why I want you to put that great piece of wood on that old 00 Smith gun.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

Dave I never tested it.I did some loads that were 7/8 ounce and Solo 1250 that gave me 1300fps and 7150 on pressure but they were 2 3/4 also but that was 20 years ago and now that I am getting back to hunting I really like the RST shells,wish I never sold my reloading stuff.