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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Requesting Wisdom Regarding Questionable Chamber Integrity |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:36 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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MSM2019,
Congrats on your upcoming retirement, make sure you use the 16 gauge gun as much as you can and a good fly fishing rod also!
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:13 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1842
Location: Central ND
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Dave,
Thank you. I have both and plan on using both every chance I get. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:08 am
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345
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Here is what I'm seeing on one of my 16 sxs'
Left bbl:
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57207_600x400/]
[/URL]
Right bbl:
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57208_600x400/]
[/URL] |
_________________ 1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28" |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:48 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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That looks pretty nasty...but so does my Parker 10. When I took it to a qualified man for inspection he didn't even break out the borescope. He told me my photos made it look a lot worse than it was. That made sense since I was essentially photographing shadows.
What is different though, is that my pits are not in the chambers and a ten gauge is typically built heavy wall anyway. That said, How much extra margin for strength do you have? Do you have the means to measure wall thickness? Some guns have a lot of extra wall and it takes one heck of a pitting to be an issue, while others have scant little extra metal to begin with. With a 5 1/2 lb. 16 gauge I would be rather concerned. With a heavy 16 built on a 12 ga frame, I probably would not be terribly worried.
Right now, in your situation I would be wanting to know wall thickness (as much as can be determined anyway) and then get a knowledgeable shotgun specialist with a borescope to look it over and provide some solid insight as to how much metal has been subtracted by the rust/ reduction process.
Proof testing would be great, but I don't even know where to send you on this side of the pond.
If this is an extremely valuable gun, there is the option of sleeving in a new set of barrel tubes. Properly done, there will be no sign of the procedure and it opens up some options in terms of balance, choking, etc. if so desired. If this is a $400 gun, I wouldn't go through the expense. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:29 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Virginia
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I would not worry about it since the pitted area in the chamber is going to be covered by the shell. Gas will not be directly impinging on the pits. I would worry more about sticky extraction. |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:51 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Dan Lee,
Good analysis sir!
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:08 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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So I guess a thin plastic sleeve (hull) is going to solve any issues of structural integrity? I don't think so. Chamber pressure is exerted on those walls, irrelevant of the hull. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:11 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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WyoChukar,
What you say is true, I would have the barrel thickness measured in that area and see what the Master Gun Maker advises.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:46 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Kentucky
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Wahoo;
I have a barrel wall thickness gauge. I've owned three different types. I have several bore gauges, have owned three different types of these. I have had several different styles of bore scopes over the years. I don't believe any of these tools would tell you if your chamber pits are dangerous or not. The thing to do is make yourself a 90 degree pick with a microscopic edge and actually feel the depth and width of the pits. If it was mine and I had already shot it I would just go ahead and use it. Well no that's not actually true. I would take a long forcing cone reamer cut the chamber and forcing cone to spec. The chamber and forcing cone length is up to you. I would then take a flexhone and polish the chamber, forcing cone, barrel and choke. None of this would make your gun any safer. It would remove the sharp edges, dark spots and make the barrel bore look good. That dark ring at the end of your chamber is a rough unpolished forcing cone. Just polishing the forcing cone can improve your patterns. You can do all this yourself and it's a lot of fun. Then again it cost nothing to just shoot it as it is! I would not worry about it.
Good luck; Tom |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:21 am
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345
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Thanks to all for your advise. Not sure what's next best step, but will have a fella take a look. I might just move towards shooting 2.5" shells in it too. |
_________________ 1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28" |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:32 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Kentucky
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If the gun came with 2.75" chambers using 2.5" shells does not make it any safer to shoot. It depends on the loading. Some 2.5" shells have as much or more pressure than 2.75" shells.
Tom |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:40 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Gentlemen,
What tdnathens advises is true, one of the reasons I use 2 1/2" RST & Poly SpredR's in my classic American and Best German double guns is the low pressure they develop when fired. They also make great patterns for Grouse and Woodcock hunting.
Before you load and shoot, make sure of the pressure developed by the shells you intend to use. Just because a shell is short does not mean it is a low pressure shell.
If you are rolling your own, make sure you understand what you are building.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:24 pm
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345
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Yea, I was thinking the low pressure RST shells. |
_________________ 1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28" |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:32 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1842
Location: Central ND
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Here is my question on this chamber pressure vs bad pitting.
If you wouldn’t trust a cartridge that develops 10,000 PSI, in a shotgun that was probably proof tested in the 17,000 - 18,000 PSI vicinity. Why would you ever put a shotgun to your face and pull the trigger on a cartridge that develops 7,000 - 8,000 PSI?
The total lack of common sense on this subject, absolutely puzzles me. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:57 pm
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345
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I wouldn't characterize this thread as having a "total lack of common sense" as it is the concensus to have the bores checked out by a gunsmith. As stated already, I'm not gonna ignore the potential danger, that's why I'm taking it to a pro for evaluation. The use of the lower pressure rounds isn't so much to abate the issue as to add a measure of care or I should say reduce the stress to the chamber if I'm convinced it's safe to shoot. I like those shells anyways, so it's not strickly due to concerns with safety. It might turn out that the shorter shells are not the best thing to use. I won't know until it's seen by the Dr., and we discuss my options. |
_________________ 1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28" |
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