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Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

ShootingM12 12 bores has spoilt me..need more mass at the barrel to tame my swing with my M12 16 bore...so here is the plan...add a lead mag plug instead of wood and put a lovely solid rib on the darling...while the lead plug is not too expensive, it will take a bite outa my gun running money for the rib...just love those solid ribs tho.

Any other ideas appreciated. (I tried practice with the gun as is, but my old body is too gone to change my swing...been shooting M12 12 bore skeet guns and seems that they have worn a groove.

Hmmm...maybe some Briley thin walled choke tubes?? could end up shooting the M12 16 bore for every sort of critter.

Thanks Cool

It might help us if you tell us the barrel length first. Going from a heavier gun to a lighter one always takes some practice to adjust to the quicker handling characteristics. Lighter guns come to the shoulder and cheek a bit faster. If you are out running the target, you might be arm swinging instead of swinging from the waist as is proper.

Going from a 7-1/2 pound gun to a 6-1/2 pound gun is not a real stretch. If your 16 ga gun's barrel is 26 inches or longer, and the gun fits you, I'd put some time and money into shooting it at a skeet range low gun and save your money for other, more important things.

While at the range, concentrate on mounting the gun smoothly and solidly and swinging from the waist to track and swing through the mark. Don't swing the gun with your arms--ever. Let your gun and your arms go along for the ride once the gun is mounted firmly in place. Your arms should be in a solid, established position and not relaxed or floppy as some folks tend to do. They should be maintaining your gun's position in relation to your eye and not moving from that position. They don't need to be locked up like iron, just firm and consistantly in the same position, shot to shot. Most problems with swing begin and end there and not with the gun's weight unless its a real wand and under 6 pounds. However, even these little guns can be gotten used to with good form and shot execution. Gun swing is always from the waist.

Also, always remember to plant your feet to about split the direction where you will execute the shot. This will keep you from restricting that swing. Having your feet out of position will restrict your swing and will always lead to arm swinging. this is a wingshooting no no. Good luck with your practice.

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

Great suggestion...maybe it is all about practice . But careful practice. Thanks much..probably help me shoot my M12 12 bores better. My M12 16 has a 28" barrel..and feels a lot lighter...comes in at about 6.5 compared to my 7.5 and 7.75 m12's...probably these dampen down some bad shooting habits that needed work anyway.

And gives me the excuse to get to the range and shoot!

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

On most guns a rib is about 4 oz, you can test the result by taping 4oz of lead fishing sinkers to the barrel. Spread them out like a rib. Do that before dropping the cash that may not make the amount of difference you desire.

But nothing beats the previously recommended practice. The gun wont make you swing smooth and follow through...you have to do it.

Jeff

I've always had trouble swinging smoothly with very light guns of under 6 pounds. Its only recently that I've figured out why. I tend to mount the gun a bit too fast and out of sync with my move to square my feet about with where the shot will be actually made. I therefore start the gun towards the target too far ahead of my body and then have to slow the mount move down to let everything else catch up. this throws the whole move out of rythmn and coordination.

So now I make sure my feet, shoulder and head are in sync. with the gun. The stock comb hits my face a tiny sliver of a second before I slap the trigger. Feet, shoulders, head (and eye)and gun are all now exactly where they should be for a proper move - mount- shoot execution as is usually done on a fast flushing game bird. I've been practicing with my CZ .410 Ringneck, a 5.75 pound gun. I'm doing much better through understanding the problem, it's solution, and performing the move well. Again, solid, organized practice is the answer.

Guest

Chaser if you do decide to go the solid rib route Simmons Gun Specialties at 700 Rogers Road, Olathe Kansas is still in business and do an excellent job. They may try to talk you into a vented rib but to me the solid rib is the way to go.

http://www.simmonsguns.com/

and The Gun Shop right next door has some neat doubles Very Happy

Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 370 Location: Amarillo, Texas

A cutts compensator adds 2 or 3 ounces at the end of the barrel, that should add some inertia!

Mike

If I were to buy a plain barreled repeater, I'd certainly have to have a rib installed or find a barrel with a rib for the gun. The only other solution would be to have a ramp of perhaps a 1/4 inch high and about 1 to 1-1/2 inches long installed at the muzzle.

I learned to shoot with a ribbed barrel. My brain is imprinted to shoot right at the mark with the target sitting right on the rib or when the barrel passes directly through the bottom of the target. I therefore will invariably overshoot when shooting a plain barreled gun with a simple bead sitting right on the barrel. If I lower the comb to lower the POI, I will end up burying the barrel behind the action. This does not work well.

However, if my barrel was too light and placed the gun's point of balance too far back, adding a rib probably won't work that well unless most of its weight is out at the muzzle. A hollow rib with lead added to the end might work. Probably a longer barrel or a lighter butt are the best two solutions. An extra long extended choke tube might work too.

I had such a balance problem with a 28 ga Browning Superlight with 26 inch barrels several years back. It seems the stock wood was very dense and heavy. The solution was to route out some more of the wood. I was able to carefully remove several ounces of wood without making the stock dangerously thin. This put the balance back forward just enough to help the gun come up flat between my hands like a good game gun should. It also lightened the gun up to just under 6-1/2 pounds. Now it comes to my face perfectly and shoots well for me.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

The A5's have a block under the bead on plain barrels. It has the same effect as the short ramped rib referred to by 16gaugeguy. with the gun mounted the block has exactly the same shape as a full length rib with a bead at the end, but without the weight.

The short ramp or block and bead are effective alternatives.

Jeff

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

Here's the plan for the M12 16ga:

1) Shoot the M12 16 ga exclusively for the rest of the season...with lots of skeet practice inbetween...
2) Ship the gun to Andy's custom shop for a solid rib and to open the choke from mod to IC....(good ol' Andy will change the choke and choke marking to be as original!)
3) Try to resist taking my other M12 12 bores out of the safe...(I swear they whimper just like my setter, Gabriel when I put on my shooting duds and don't take him with me..which is very seldom lemme tell ya...)

"...the wings of inspiration unclipped by the sissors of rationality"

you are lucky ist a setter. My shorthair would have bit me in the ass if I dared such a stunt. Laughing

Guest

One of the best example of shotgun balance was the one that Bruce Buck described on his Shotgun Report website. If you had a four foot rod with all eight pounds located in the middle of that rod, you would have a situation where the rod would be very easy to start but also can stop just as easily. The next example is to have four pounds located on both ends of the rod. The rod would take a long time to get started but would stay on track once you get it started. The only problem with this setup would be when you needed to change directions like a wild bird would do in flight. The last example would have the eight pounds distributed throughout the entire length of the rod. Hopefully, you would have a decent balance along with the ability to track a target and change direction if needed. I have a few shotgun I inherited from my father (circa 1950's) when having a short barrel was considered for "quick and/or brush" shooting. As Gene Hill had stated that shooting a quick handling gun could be a very tough task master. If you don't mind temporary looks of your gun, I have seen people use lead tape to add some weight along the barrel to assist their balance rather than put all of their weight just in the magazine plug. A model 12 has such classic lines that putting a Cutts Comp on it is like putting plastic rims on a vintage sports care. I don't know the cost of acquiring a 28" barrel but that would probably fit your situation...

Good luck

Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 173 Location: S. E. Arizona

I have found that simply moving my hand forward a bit on the forend gives better control and adds a bit of weight and mass further out the barrel. This works at least on double guns, and I shoot some very light guns.

Should you make such changes to your 16 it would be more like your 12s, but it would be a worse shotgun. The 16 Model 12 is somewhat unique for its fine handling and lightness while still throwing a good shot load; you might not want to rush to alter it. Instead use the guns you like and transfer the 16 to somebody who is looking for a shotgun with its qualities. After all, if a guy really likes the way Cadillacs drive it makes no sense to instead buy a sports car and load it down with bricks so that it rides the same!