16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by onefunzr2 on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total*

FYI...

http://www.fieldsportltd.com/gunroom/gun_view.php?gunId=366

Used, but not a bad price for a field gun.

I posted cause I thought someone might need a 16ga Christmas present.

Thanks for the heads up funzr2. This one is a 26" as new Superlight, not the 24" Upland. It is also gone to a new home. If you snooze, you loose. Wink

16gg:

No snoozing here - looked long and hard and then hoped that another 16ga.com member would help me out by buying this shotgun.

Assume you were on purchasing end?

If so, congrats and post some more pics later Very Happy

I've been looking for a 16 ga grade one Superlight for some time now. They were supposed to make some in the last lot, but that got canceled in favor of the feather model with the alloy receiver. I doubt we'll ever see any more steel framed Supers anymore. I'm lucky to have moved "without pause" on this one. It is just what I want, 26" barrels and all. So smiley faces all around guys.

I promise to give it a good home.

Now, if any of you have a line on a couple of Brittany puppies that need some love and care, I'd be very happy to help out.

I

pointed

the way to the scattergun, can't help with the dogs!
Glad someone gave this 16ga a home.
Perhaps when it arrives in your possession you could

point

out the differences between what was advertised and what it turned out to be?
I have a Sissytori Lightning 12ga. That's as much as I know about them.

Easy to do. Glad you asked. As you know, the Lightning has a semi-pistol, bird's head grip and comes in various grades, either steel or alloy framed, with either 26 or 28 inch barrels.

The Superlight has a straight English type wrist and grip, with a slight schnabel on the forend too. It used to be made in various grades and only with a steel frame, but now it only comes in the alloy feather weight frame. Barrel lengths are the same as the Lightning.

Finally, the Citori Upland model was for all intents and purposes, a Superlight with 24" barrels. The Lightning was also offered with 24" barrels briefly, but soon was discontinued. Most folks find the 24" barrels too short, too whippy, unbalanced, and with a somewhat louder muzzle blast than most folks like. On the other hand, some folks love them too.

I do not, and fortunately for me, this one was listed as an Upland but is actually a 26" Superlight. It probably floundered around the rack because it was mislabled. Well Goody for me. Laughing

I says pick your poison, plunks down your money, and buys what you likes. Shotguns are a personal thing more so than any other type of firearem, so its up to the guy what's paying the bill say's I. Wink

So 16gg, does it have a steel or alloy frame & receiver?

In a hinge gun, steel for me, my friend. Only steel.

Alloy can be used in most most modern pump and auto designs in which the bolt locks up into a steel barrel. All the forces of ignition and pressure are contained in an in line, closed, steel to steel system, which does not involve the reciever at all. Even here, a headspace issue can and does happen over time, but is mch easier and cheaper to fix.

Not so in a hinge gun where barrel and frame are seperate componants, hinged together, and not exactly in line. 9000 to 12000 PSI is a lot of force to contain where a hinged barrel impinges on a breech face without a lock across the top. If the citori had a Greener or Kersten type cross bolt like many SxS and some O/U guns, I'd say fine, maybe it will hold up. It does not. My guess is these alloy hinge guns will come "off face' a lot sooner than some think.

Call it the foolish whims of an older fellow, but I can't bring myself to trust alloy in a hinge gun's receiver and forend where steel has been called for lo these many years. Steel is tougher, wears better, stretches less, and is more resistant to the ravages of time and heavy use. Plus, a 6-1/2 pound 16 is plenty light enough for me. So steel it is or none at all.

I'm in agreement with you on this one 16gg. I prefer steel as well. Sounds like a nice acquisition.

My post and my position are not meant as a slap at anyone who has bought a Citori Feather, although I'm sure some feathers have been ruffled no pun intended. Oh Hell, on second thought, that' a good one. Laughing

I'm sure if these alloy guns are used both sparingly, and the ammo used in them is picked judiciously, they will outlast the owner by several lifetimes.

However, I shoot the bejabbers out of my favorite guns. I also like to shoot some rather hellaceous hunting loads at times, loads ok pressurewise for a modern, post WWII steel gun, but questionable for an older gun or an alloy one in my mind. These loads sometimes go right up and give the fence a good kick pressurewise and certainly shot weight wise. (I don't and won't post them, so don't even ask.)

However, its why I like a modern, rugged, all steel 16 ga Citori or an all steel model 37 pump. I can do stuff with either reserved for only for 12 ga guns less than 3 decades ago. And no, I will not blow up my guns. I do know where the fenceline is. Nor do I shoot these crushers all the time, only when the chips are down, but its nice to have that kind of reserve on tap in a nice light, easy to carry gun ythast can handle them.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

The new alloy receiver Browning guns I looked at (though opted out) all had titanium inserts over the firing pin and other wear points. It is pretty needless to worry about wearing one out.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

HA! I think you'd wear out your shoulder before you wear out any Browning. I got the feather for weight and don't worry about wearing it out as most shooting is low pressure 3/4oz and 7/8 oz. loads. That being said, If I had to do it over, I would go with the steel receiver. The feather is not fun shooting the 1 1/8 oz. Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads!

When I was a youngster, the only gun I had was the Sweet 16 I inherited from my father. I did a lot of duck hunting and, not knowing better, I reloaded a lot of 1 1/4oz "baby magnums". Blue dot and #5 shot. That steel receiver SS just gobbled them up and spit them out. I did crack the forearm though. That has since been fixed and I am gentler to her now in her golden years.

Matt

It's not the open and close type wear I fret about. A careful regimine of cleaning and relubing any gun helps that kind of wear. I'm more concerned with frame stretching and wear from the mechanical advantage of a barrel attached only at the bottom of the block by one hinge pin and locked up only at the bottom too. Citori models are such guns.

In my mind, an O/U gun with an alloy frame would best be locked closed at two points, one below and one above the chambers. This would spread the stress between the two points and would help contain the forces between them more inline with the breech face. Without that top locking point, an alloy frame has to stand up to the increased leverage from the thrust of the top shell face against the breech face at a point further away from the locking bolt than from the bottom shell. This force has a tendency to try to spring the gun open. Steel holds up fairly well here. History has proven this over the more than 60 years these guns have been used.

I'm fairly sure John Browning had steel in mind when he designed the Superposed, which is also the same design of the Citori. If an alloy frame could have been used, he probably would have tried one. Aircraft grade alloys were around then. they are not all that new. As far as anyone knows, John perferred steel in his design. He had his reasons I'm sure.

I've also seen my share of steel framed superposed guns shot loose from very very heavy and long use. So even an all steel O/U of this design will eventually shoot loose given enough time and stress. These new alloy models have not been in use long enough for me to feel comfortable with the idea. I trust old John B. I'll wait and see what becomes of some young Miroku engineer's ideas. I'll let other folks buy them and find out. Wink

I trust my steel Citori models and will pass on the Alloy ones for now. But that is just my own take on things, and not meant to slight anyone else's choice. You all have the right to buy what you want. Me too. Cool

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

I hear ya-Even though those very places you cited as concerns are the titanium insert areas browning puts in those guns. But I'm the same way and have passed on those guns as an option in which to place my hard earned funds. No, I have stayed with steel too, but intellectually understand its probably over-paranoia. Now, If I had money to throw around, I'd prolly have a white lightning in the stable-preferably in 16GA. Of course I didnt hesitate to put 1,000 bucks into a 78 year old 16GA sterlingworth-go figure