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I gave a little bit of thought to what might make for a good late-season pheasant load. Given that there is a relative tradeoff between the size/density of the load and the velocity, which factor do you think is more important? In other words, would a lighter, faster load which can better penetrate tissue and break bones be preferable over a denser, slower load which is more likely to make multiple hits?

A good rule of thumb for any hunting load is to use a pellet big enough to break the biggest wing bone in the bird being hunted, and use enough of them to guarantee at least 4 hits in the vitals at whatever range you will likely be shooting. For pheasant, that is a #6 out to 30 yards and a #5 or #4 beyond that range. I ounce of 6 gives enough pattern density for a pheasant sized bird. 1-1/8 of #5 and 1-1/4 of #4 will do too. However, more choke and better accuracy are also needed with these bigger pellets in a 16 out at their effective ranges. Any velocity of 1275 to 1300 FPS will do nicely, especially with the bigger pellets out to 40 yrds or a bit more.

Round pellets lose velocity faster than any other projectile. Starting a load out at anything over 1325 FPS is really a waste of effort. The pellets will shed that extra velocity inside twenty yards and then lose less proportionately as they continue to slow down due to the density of the air. A heavier charge of bigger pellets launched at moderate velocities bewteen 1200 and 1300 FPS will kill quite cleanly out to 40 yards or so. Air density is why its better to go to a bigger pellet for cold weather shooting.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

I see no reason to go larger than 5's-----With a decent choke and prope shot placement it will bring that rooster down----of course there are those shots that are not perfectly centered----You will still have enough pellets to ensure a clean kill--not so with 4's due to fewer pellets per load

I agree with ole Daniel ther Mike.

A well hit pheasant does not always die in flight and can lock its wings to sail quite a distance. It can't do this if the wings are broken. The fall into a hard, frozen ground will also often stun it well enough to anchor it until you or the dog get to it. Usually, by then, its flopped its last flop if the vitals were hit.

I've had a few well hit roosters shot past 35 yards fly off with more than a couple of #5 shot in them. The #5 pellets did not break the main wing bones. The birds were recovered dead by the dog after a long search-wings in tact. This seemed to happen on a couple of the coldest days I've ever hunted pheasant. It was also while using a 12 ga Superlight too. The lesson sunk home. I went to 1-1/2 ounces of #4 shot for very cold days and never had it happen again if the bird was centered.

I've since gone to the 16, and also developed some 1-1/4 ounce #4 loads and a couple of custom reamed chokes that give patterns suited to them for the bad days. I've yet to see any rooster fly through a centered pattern of #4 shot anything but quite dead with its wing bones shattered to kindling. True, you have to hit them well. To do this with a 16 requires a more compact pattern out yonder and better shooting, but the pellets have to do their job too.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

It doesn't take all that much to break a pheasant's wingbone. You have little except feathers to deflect the shot, and feathers aren't very efficient deflecting devices--as opposed to bone and meat, which is what you have to penetrate, shooting from the rear, to reach a pheasant's vitals (if you don't happen to hit him in the head, and quite often on a going away bird that head is sort of tucked down where you don't see much of it.) The best load, if you're only concerned about breaking wings, is one with more shot, not bigger shot (unless you're shooting somewhere well out beyond 40 yards).

But I want to break both a wing and a leg on a pheasant, and preferably punch something through to his vitals to kill him as cleanly as possible. The latter isn't all that hard to do on a crossing bird; a good bit harder on a going away bird. But if I break both a wing and a leg, that bird's chances of escaping my dogs are not very great. If he comes down in the wrong place with two good legs, that might be a different story.

This year, I expect to shoot something over 70 wild pheasants (I'm about 80% to that goal as I write this). The vast majority of those have fallen to British 6's, which--splitting the difference between American 6's and 7's--is about a 6.6. My 1 1/16 oz loads give me about the same pattern density, choke for choke, that I'd get with a 1 1/4 oz load of American 6's. I've found penetration to be adequate out to 35 yards; my L barrel load (tighter choke) is 1 1/8 oz American 6's. On rare occasions, I'll shoot 5's (tight barrel only), never anything larger. 5's have nearly as much energy at 50 yards (and how many 50 yard shots do you take?) as 6's do at 35--and 6's have well over 2 ft-lbs at 40 yards, where I find them to have enough punch to do the job. Beyond that, unless it's a bird with shot already in it, I don't pull the trigger. My Brit 6's, as field tested on wild ringnecks in the Dakotas and Iowa, will break both wings and legs. And out to 35 yards or so, they'll usually provide enough penetration to render a rooster dead, or close to it.

But these are pheasants we're talking about, and while they're tough birds, they're not pterodactyls. Velocity, as long as you stay above 1200 fps or so, really doesn't make much difference, because even an additional 100 fps velocity isn't going to give you much more energy out where you hit the bird. A pattern that's well filled with pellets big enough to do the job is the formula for consistent success on pheasants.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

Larry, I concur. I patterned several handloads of 1oz. #5 shot in my Brit 16 and did not like the patterns. I moved up to nickle plated #6's. I am also looking at maybe getting a 2 1/2" 12ga. for the added versatility. I remember that you are shooting the Gamebore 2 1/2"? Do you know what the pressure/velocity of those rounds are?

Matt

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

CF, the Gamebore Pure Golds are 2 1/2", proofed to CIP standards, so they're going to be fine in any Brit gun as far as pressure goes. I checked the Kent website and they didn't give velocity, but my guess would be they're very similar to the Eley Grand Prix (also a 1 1/16 oz load), and they're 1250 fps.

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I don't shoot those dainty guns with 2-1/2" chambers. Nor do I shoot with my pinkie fingers sticking out either like some English twits do. Wink

I've used #7 shot for early season birds in close very effectively out of a 28 ga at 1250 FPS. However, I have noticed the dead straight going away birds often need barrel #2 with the #6, 1 ounce load. Inside 30 yards, usually the bird is dumped well enough. I also agree that #6 shot does the job out the 35 yards 90% of the time.

We rarely get a long crossing shots on pheasant. Most shots past 35 yards are going away. I can't remember ever being buzzed by an enraged pheasant, even a prehistoric pteradactyl pheasant. Laughing

So I'd say its wise to plan for the straightaway and carry loads with pellets big enough to reach the vitals from butt to forward.

I agree, most times #5 shot does the trick. However I wish I could say the same about a good sized rooster's wings being always easy to break Larry. I've found the wings of bigger birds, late season birds, and most of those cagey, older, hold out swamp roosters around SE Mass can be fairly resistant to even a # 5 out beyond 35 yards. These are also the same birds that tend to run and flush out at the limits of reasonable ranges. If I am lucky enough to get them up, and they aren't already out beyond 35 yards, I'm going to take the shot. I've also had birds with a broken leg but intact wings manage to pull a Houdini. Spending 30 or more minutes trying to ferret out a tough, wounded, half dead old rooster in a swamp is not fun in my book. I hate walking off from a cripple, I've spent over an hour searching for. Its happened. Always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

So, I like the added insurance of #4 in the worst late season conditions and whenever I've been clued in that I might be facing birds tougher to hunt and kill. My favorite Citori shoots these loads very well. So I'll go with them. They just seem to hit very hard, well out in cold dense air on a wind blown day like no other load will. I trust them, so I shoot with confidence, always a good thing. Do they always work? Well, almost always. That is probably as good as it will ever get for me. Nothing is perfect, especially when it comes to wingshooting.

We all must go by our own experiences. Shoot what works for you. But the main thing is use a big enough pellet for the conditions, put the pattern on the money, and don't depend on higher velocities to offset too small a pellet to do the job. I believe we can all agree on this line of thought.

Guest

Hey there sailor, you drink tea your way, and I'll drink it my way. And don't ruffle my puce and purple knickers, thanks Laughing

Now, please be so kind as to explain to us how we can put half, or even one quarter of the pattern on the front half of a north bound rooster, when we is lookin' at his south end? That would be a neat trick.

I can also commiserate with the bitter feeling of watching one fly off with all that shot invested in the effort. Sucks don't it. Rolling Eyes

The best we can do is mark them down if possible and get thee hense across whatever fields and fences that hinder us to find said rascally bird. Then, sometimes they sail clean out of sight with a pants full of shot. It's even worse if the dog has that "and I worked so hard for it too" look in their haunting, guilt laying little eyes. But, it happens. Never a good thing.

Guest

CF16: per http://www.firearmservice.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page19.html
the GameBore 2 1/2" 1 oz run 1260 fps with 8122 psi. That's the max. I'd use with my LC.
BTW: Dr 16g and I each have a box to try next weekend in KS with our short chambered 16s.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Late season formula,

Same amount of powder, a litttle bigger shot size, a tighter choke, and the willingness to watch a bird fly off without shooting.

Hit them hard or dont hit them at all.

Jeff

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

16 GG: Me thinks you are one of those "Hard Headed Yankee Practcologists" (I don't think that's a word but it should be!)

I know you love your Citori's ( I have 4 and am trying to sell 2) but you discount an aloy recieiver. I think John Browning would have embraced this technology.

You point out that you are only comfortable with steel, yet you discount the older guns! Please see Jeff Mullikans post's on his 100 year old A-5! Still knocking down geese!

I love to hunt with older guns. My goal is not to harvest the most birds. I enjoy hunting with an older gun, and I like to think of the the hands of hunters, unknown to me, using the same gun, who walked similar fields.

Matt