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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

The Project Upland on line Magazine high lighted a misunderstanding by some CT sportsman. It does show the state of mind of some people in CT about bird hunting.
A man pulled up along side the Project Upland sportsman out in the field. The man ask the Project Uplan people what they were hunting, when told they were hunting woodcock, the CT resident remarked that he did not know Woodcock were being stocked in this area any more.

This actually shows the state of mind of some modern CT sportsman, how can a modern CT sportsman not know that Woodcock are not stocked birds.

There is a great difference in the modern sportsman and the sportsman of my generation. However I never knew how bad that difference really happened to be. I highly recommend becoming a RGS/AWS Mentor, it sure looks like we need to do a lot more educating of the modern American Sportsman.

Because I Mentor a lot of Grouse, Woodcock, Pheasant and Quail hunters each season, I never dreamed we had sportsman that actually believed Woodcock were stocked birds. I do understand that a lot of non hunters have no idea what a Woodcock or Grouse really is, however for a resident hunter to misunderstand that a Woodcock is not a stocked bird, really shows the difference in our modern sportsman experience and education.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:26 pm  Reply with quote
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I recently found out from a hunting preserve owner friend of mine that people are pen raising Hungarian Partridge to hunt. I forget exactly what he said the birds were going for, but do remember thinking it was ridiculous. I would not be surprised to find out someone did pen raise woodcock to hunt.

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bobski
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2018
Posts: 621
Location: va, ct, mo

simply put...not everyone cares.
all they want to do is shoot a bird.
just like a fish. many don't care how it got in the water. they just want to pull it out on a hook.
many drive cars and trucks, if not everyone.
does everyone know how to change the oil or change a spare on their vehicle these days?
id wager not.
they just want to get to point a or b, whatever it takes.
now you know why I don't hunt.
its not (real) hunting anymore.
real hunting is....starving if I miss.

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

I don't believe the person making that comment was identified as a hunter...the remark about the pheasant was indeed identified as said by....a deer hunter.
So, not really any surprise present.
Regardless, the Public in any state often do hold many misconceptions re game....and forest/habitat management, for that matter.
Education is underserved.

Hopefully, no Preserve or state area ever sees either the woodcock or the ruffed grouse on a menu du jour.
That would be sadness to the Nth degree.
Considering the realities, difficulties and past experience with such unsound ideas, the likelihood is small.....thankfully. Idea

*Just one man's opinion but "real hunting" has nothing to do with a starvation component.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I live in CT and I know exactly why that hunter responded the way he did.

You can't shoot a quail or pheasant in the state of CT that isn't stocked, so an uneducated, 'Gotta kill something because that is what hunting is all about' hunter will respond that way.

Trust me, not all CT hunters are like that but it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better.

Many folks will not, do not care enough about upland hunting to actually read about the game they persue. As long as they kill something they think they are successful.

I belong to a club here that does stock pheasants. Guess what the #1 complaint is? Pheasants run too much.......imagine a pheasant running, who would have thought!! They only hunt the day the birds are stocked and quit hunting after the 1st Saturday in December...the last stocking day.

The last bird I killed that was on club property was February 8th and there were still more birds. No one will hunt them, because you have to work....they can hunt until March 30th.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Riflemeister,

Huns have been raised as training birds for many many years, until the PGC outlawed them as training birds I used them myself. Great birds for training my Ryman Setters, they acted very much like our Pa Ruffed Grouse in our forest training property.

MSM2019,

After living in both Simsburry and Windsor Locks when I worked for United Technology HSD, I never meant to infer all CT hunter were like this particular man. At that time we had some pretty good hunting on both wild and pen raised birds. Nobody I knew in CT at that time would have ever made the mistake of saying Woodcock are pen raised birds, just the changing of times I guess.

Those people who just want to kill something are definitely not my kind sportsman, for me the dog work and respect for Gods animals and birds is much more important than simply just killing birds. We still hunt with good double guns, only hunt the same pointed bird twice and never shoot birds on the ground or in trees. Respect for God's wild birds is paramount, we eat what we shoot and prize the gun dogs that make our sport possible.

It kind of bugged me that some CT sportsman could be so uneducated that he believed Woodcock were planted birds. IMO Grouse and Woodcock are God's greatest game birds. In our family hunting them is done in a certain respectful manner, and we learn how to do it, as part of our family tradition. In my family this entails a lot more than just killing. God gave us the mountains, birds and animals and they are not to be taken for granted, those that due, are not welcome to hunt with us, or welcome in our home, especially at dinner time. We do not train or sell gun dogs for them either.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:30 pm  Reply with quote
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PCD, thanks for the info on pen raised Huns. I've only hunted the wild Huns and would say they are the spookiest bird I've hunted. The first Huns my dog pointed flushed when I called to my buddy that Bode was on point and I was still 200 yards away. Is there as much difference between the pen raised and wild Huns as there is for chukars?

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Pine Creek/Dave,

I didn't take offense to your post. I am upset with the idea that anyone actually thinks that woodcock could be stocked.

At one time I had great woodcock and ruffed grouse hunting, when I lived in Willington, CT.

Back in the 1980's, we had the opportunity to hunt ruffed grouse, woodcock, pheasant and quail on opening day which is the 3rd Saturday in October. I actually was successful in taking all 4 birds one year, I believe opening day 1988.

You can't do that any longer because they changed the dates for woodcock and the woodcock and grouse numbers are way down from what they were back then.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I have to read that article, my friend sent me the link, but I just haven't gotten to it.

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Grouse28
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Feb 2019
Posts: 23
Location: PA

Dave:
Here is the quote from the Project Upland

“Jesse and I exchanged glances; the question was not that crazy. In fact, a week earlier someone pulled up in a car and asked what we were hunting. “Woodcock,” Jesse replied. The gentleman with an all-serious look on his face said, “I did not know they still stocked woodcock here,” and drove away. “

Did not state or imply that the gentleman in the car was a hunter or outdoorsman.
Fake News
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hayseed
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401

I certainly cannot speak intelligently on the subject of grouse and woodcock. Have never taken either and have only seen 1 blur of a grouse in my life. That said, the Project Upland series is great and has wetted my appetite to try both, now that I have a couple dogs.
I love the passion of a lot of those in the profiles and their appreciation for traditions, comradery, fine dog work and fine guns.
Dave , your experience, passion and family tradition would make for fine subject matter for this series. Not to mention the fire shotguns in your collection and dogs.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Riflemeister,

The huns we purchased were pretty much full grown and spooky as the devil. They acted very much like our Pa Grouse, were great training birds because they were so spooky. Great training for our Grouse dogs. Now you must have a special permit from the PGC to use them. At one time the PGC wanted to transplant them as a Game bird here in Pa. The operation failed, however the PGC believes the Huns could actually reproduce and take hold here in our Pa forests, and now do not want that to happen. Heck I would like to purchase a bunch and release them on my land for training purposes.

hayseed,
If the person in the car was out near where Project Upland was hunting, there is a high probability that he was a hunter or some kind of sportsman. They did not indicate the age of the man asking the question however.

Grouse 28,
The Project Upland magazine is well worth reading and I do like their videos also.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


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T-Bone
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 153
Location: Orofino, Idaho

Riflemeister wrote:
I recently found out from a hunting preserve owner friend of mine that people are pen raising Hungarian Partridge to hunt. I forget exactly what he said the birds were going for, but do remember thinking it was ridiculous. I would not be surprised to find out someone did pen raise woodcock to hunt.


Huns are an option at a well known shooting preserve near my home in the North Palouse Region of Washington. The owner of the preserve likes them because they seem to "go wild" right away (much like PCD's comment):

http://www.uplandbirdranch.com/hunting-packages.html

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

T-Bone

A good graded L.C. Smith needs to be added to your 16 collection!


hayseed,

If I was a might younger and in better shape I would help Project Upland out for sure, they have been doing a real good job and I do like the magazine and the new and different writers.

MSM2019,

I remember Grouse and Woodcock hunting in the 80's in CT, I am afraid those days with the wild birds and no state taxes, are long gone. After the state game monies were stolen and put into the CT general fund, hunting in CT changed drastically, and not for the better. Even the stocked Pheasants that were released on the old tobacco farms suffered. I actually enjoyed training my dogs on the Pheasant population on the old closed down military airport grounds in Windsor Locks. At one time we did have some nice Pheasant and wild birds also, don't know if any of that is still going on, been many years sense I lived in CT.

Because the Grouse hunting was so good in NH & VT we did a lot of wild bird hunting up in those 2 states, stocked Pheasant in that era were great in CT however, especially after loosing our great wild Pheasant population in Lancaster County, Pa.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I really miss the ruffed grouse hunting that used to be here. The Ruffed Grouse Society really messed up a fantastic cover in norteastern CT and the state of CT , in its infinite wisdom, compounded the issue by releasing pheasants in the same cover.

The original owner of the land (about 500 acres or so) would clear cut random 5 acre parcels each year and the grouse flourished along with a fair number of woodcock. I was able to hunt on his land before it was sold to the state of CT and it was a treat.

Not anymore, and I haven't been able to find another cover like that one. What is left that I can find is spotty at best and absolutely deer tick infested.

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