16ga.com ~ View topic

Thanks Randy. I appreciate the info. As far as buying a 7-1/2 LB. 16 SxS, I think I'll wait until Huglu and CZ figure out a way to trim about 3/4 of a LB or more off the design. Could be this one was actually done on a 12 ga frame dispite claims or rumors to the contrary? However, once they do get a handle on the weight issue, they will have another winner IMO.

Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 22

It won't happen.

For every one who claims to want a superlight 16, there are more that just don't want to be pounded into the ground like a tent stake when shooting all day. This gun is suitable for dove field and clay fields alike.

Smooth swing, balance, and moderate recoil as well as value: that is the primary areas of appeal.

They can be lightened, backboring will help, as would opting for an English stock. You can also re-inlet the buttstock to pull out weight if you wish.

But, it is not going to be a Citori feather-- nor will it kick like one.

I use my 16 ga guns mostly for upland work, walking behind dogs and still hunting. My steel framed Citori models weigh between 6-1/2 to 6-3/4 pounds depending on the barrel length. I shoot informal skeet with 3/4 ounce reloads. I'd use a 1200 fps 7/8 ounce load of #8 for pass shooting doves if I could hunt them in MA (protected) like I used to in Florida. As for pheasant hunting loads, I don't notice recoil when a pheasant or grouse gets up, even my 1-1/4 ounce heavy duty thumpers. Adrenilin rush I guess. Plus, I doubt I've ever shot more than 6 of those in one day.

Anyway, that weight bracket in a 16 suits me perfectly. I have 12 ga. upland guns that weigh less than 7-1/2 pounds. For some reason, the jump between 6-1/2 to 7-1/2 does not upset my swing and timing as much as from 6-1/2 to below 6 lbs, though I'm learning how to make the transtition better than I used to.

However, I see no advantage in a 7-1/2 pound 16. A 6-1/2 pounder is a bit quicker to the shoulder and easier to carry, yet swings about as smoothly as a heavier gun for me. If I'm going to carry a 12 weight gun, I might as well also get the 12 ga. ballistic advantage. So, a 12 it would be. I don't carry one anymore. A fairly light 16 is more than enough gun for all my upland shooting needs.

We all have our preferences. I like modern 16 ga. doubles that have all the advantages of the older American classic guns without the problems older style stock configurations cause me. I own a couple of good ones already, but a lighter weight 16 ga. Ringneck would fit right in. I'll wait and see.

When it comes to what is possible, regardless of how improbable I always leave the door open. Seems quite a few gun pundits were calling the 16 dead and gone less than a decade ago. Well here comes the 16 around again. Who'd a thunk it. Laughing

I never say never. I've seen never fall down too many times to believe in it. Wink

Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 22

The reason for a 16 ga. has a lot to do with the romance of the gauge, and the reason for any gun goes beyond technical details.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sixteen_gauge_banter.htm

Sure weight matters-- but, so does balance and smoothness. What I don't like is the "Remington" approach of 870 / 1100 16's that weigh MORE than their 12 ga. counterparts.

BUT-- the U2 is a std. model; DeHaan will make a gun to your personal specifications, the SGr models. Just tell Mark what you want. Cool

Randy, I'm an avid hunter and shooter. I romanticize about retired shotguns. I only shoot modern, well made guns that perform well for the requirements I need to hit the mark quickly and kill cleanly. I've yet to find a better all around gun for any upland bird hunting than a 16 ga. double, O/U, or pump gun that weighs around 6-1/2 pounds.

Our fathers and grand fathers could easily have chosen a 12 or a 20 for most of thier upland hunting. Both gauges were available then. Many did not. The 16 was second only to the 12 in popularity back then and #1 among most knowledgeable and discerning upland hunters. The reasons had nothing to do with romance. The gauge just fit the need perfectly and it still does. It is utterly practical.

Much of the corporate campaign waged against the gauge by certain corporate interests starting just before WWII and continuing on even today in some circles was done because the gauge was too versitile and a threat and hinderence to corporate designs. A light weight 16 gauge shotgun pretty much eliminates the need for the smaller gauges. Its light enough to carry all day by most average upland hunters. It is more responsive and quicker to the shoulder than a heavier 12 ga. It is easier to make in a sufficiently light weight than a 12. The 16 has enough mass to swing well. It also has enough punch to take the biggest of our upland species right out to the farthest reasonable ranges most folks can capably shoot to. Plus, it is all too easy to create lighter loads for small bird and comfortable recreational shooting with a lighter gun. These are all the 16 gauge's strong points so well loved by our forefathers. Who could ask for or need a more perfect upland and even light waterfowl gun?

In short, the 16 would have stifled the expansion of the 20 and the 28, two of the four skeet gauges, into the hunting gun market or so Remington and Winchester thought and as they desired to prevent. Consider this. Back before this period of time after WWII, the 16 was commonly used for skeet shooting prior to the low gun to high gun rule change. This rule change was done at the request of these two gun industry giants to open the market for their mass produced guns with standardized stock dimensions. They promised the NSSA they'd help establish skeet as the everyman's shooting sport. they built skeet shooting facilities across this nation. They also made sure the 16 was passed over as a legitimate skeet gauge. Using a 16 with the right sized shot loads of 3/4 ounce to 1-1/8 ounce would have eliminated the need for 12 through 28 ga guns. (Ironically enough, the 20 gauge is more commonly shot in the 12 gauge event than the 12 today because of the advent of the insert skeet tube and carrier barrels.)

Today, competative skeet is in decline. It is a specialist's game of repetative precision. You don't win by hitting the most targets under varying conditons from low gun with a variable time release window. You lose by dropping one target out of hundreds and in some cases, thousands of repetative shots. Most folks find it boring and too much of a grind and prefer more varying and intersting games.

Remington and Winchester have abandoned the sport pretty much. All the corporate sponsered shooting facilities have been gone for decades now.
More shooters are being lost to 5 stand and sporting clays every year. At the same time, the advantages of a light 16 is being rediscovered by an ever growing group of upland shooters. 16 gauge guns weighing more than 6-3/4 pounds are passed over. Ask any Remington rep how well their 7-1/2 pound 16 ga 1100 autos and 870 pumps are selling. Plus, more and more 16 ga fans are discovering the fun of shooting 3/4 ounce and 7/8 ounce reloads for recreational skeet and other shotgun games with their light weight guns.

So it seems the circle that Remington et. a.l tried so hard to shatter has been reformed and the light carrying, quick to the shoulder, yet hard hitting 16 is coming back. Romance might have some place in this phenomenon, but I'm betting solid practical reasons are having a much greater influence. I've been reading it here and elsewhere for sometime now. I too use the gauge because none other suits my needs so well. Romance? that's for movies and dime store novels IMO. each to his own.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

My 16GA weighs less than 6LBS and never noticed any pounding except at the target range - and that was my fault for subconciously raising my cheek off the narrow, sharp comb because I'm used to seeing the target (as with my XS Skeet). After I put a leather comb adjuster on it the problem has been solved. Now I can float the target just above the bead (like with the XS Skeet) and all is well. In fact I got a double on quail yesterday with it. Just had to raise it a bit to see more rib because I refuse to change my shooting style to fit a gun. Rather, I chose to make the gun fit mine.