16ga.com ~ View topic - Acquired a 1910 L.C. Smith 20 ga from Ken at Shooting Stars.

Gentlemen,

Just recently I had purchased a Euro model 16 gauge Huglu from Ken Graft at the Shooting Stars Gun shop in Ohio. Because of my open heart surgery and selling one of my homes in Churchill, Pa I was unable to take actual delivery on that 16 gauge gun.

This actually turned out to be very lucky for me. Ken in his usual business gun dealing, ended up with a real nice pre 1913 20 gauge L.C. Smith that had been special ordered by it's 1st owner, with M/M chokes, 28" barrels and 3 position safety.
It also has the DT I really like.

Now very few 00, 20 gauge 1910 L.C. Smith double guns were actually made in this configuration and Ken knew I would want to add this particular gun to my L.C. Smith gun collection. We worked out a deal on the guns and I now own the pre 13 L.C. Smith 20 gauge gun, Ken keeps the 16 gauge Euro Huglu for his inventory.

Needles to say I am real happy with the pre 13 L.C. Smith 20 gauge, I will have the Stocks & Breech historically restored, after this years Grouse hunting season is completed. After the restoration it looks like this little pre 13 20 gauge will cut into my 16 gauge gun time in the Grouse woods, especially in the later part of the season, when the leaves are down. Real nice light pre 13, 20 gauge gun weighing 5.6 lbs. When I run across pre 13 guns like this one, I wish Rich Painter or Freddie Brunner were not retired, their restoration work was just incredible.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

My newly acquired 1910, 00 L.C. Smith 20 gauge double gun. One serious Grouse Gun with 2 1/2" RST or Poly SpredR shells.

Congratulations Dave ,
I think you made the right choice , that gun has found a good home .
All the best WJ.

Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 401

Very nice. Everything except the part about cutting into the 16’s time in the grouse woods. Shame on you.

This gun must have been acquired under the premise of “I don’t know how many guns I own, but I know I need one more”.

Good Hunting,
Mike

Chicago,

No man ever owns enough L.C. Smith pre 13 guns or F.E. Thomas Bamboo Fly Rods.
Sooner or later another beautiful American Classic comes up for sale. Now having the money available to make an immediate purchase is a completely different matter.

Some people say the cost of American Classic double guns is coming down, this maybe true with the 12 gauge guns, the sub gauge guns, still bring serious money. If you believe a 16 gauge L.C. Smith #5 Gun is coming down in price, you might want to recheck your figuring.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Pre 1913 L.C. Smith Double Guns - America's Best

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1695 Location: Minnesota

Nice score for you Dave. Cant remember exactly but my mid 30's 26in weighs 6 or 6 1/4 lbs. Wonder how the pre 13's were lighter. Since the receiver has been blued, can a restorer take it back to case coloring?

Sav16,

I believe it will depend on what kind of bluing was done and the talent of the man restoring the gun.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Looks good in black Dave I'm a a fan of that gun as it is , looks good . WJ.

WJ,

We will see better when the gun arrives home and it gets used in the Grouse woods, more than likely it will be properly restored. Pre 13 20 gauge L.C. Smith double guns with 28" barrels and double sided safeties are hard to come by, most had 26" barrels and single sided auto safeties, because they were made for boys and ladies.

This particular gun with the 3 position safety, 28" barrels and choked M/M was definitely special ordered by the original owner, not the typical off the shelf 00 20 gauge gun. I definitely want to due right by the old girl and have her looking proper. I have a few pre 13, 20 gauge 00 L.C. Smith guns, however none with 28" barrels choked M/M until now. The gun should be a serious Grouse and Woodcock killer, and an even better Mearns Quail gun, with the use of the RST and Poly SpredR's. Ya got to love a gun over 100 years old that still functions perfectly!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

The blueing and the poor stock finish was probably done back in the 60's by somebody who did not know any better, need to have some proper screws remade for the gun also.

The barrels look perfect inside and ring true. The Brown Rotary Bolt is still perfect and the safety works perfectly. Mechanically the gun is in great shape, a little cosmetics and I have another great 20 gauge pre 13 double gun.

Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 401

Pine Creek Dave, I’m envious or your L C Smith knowledge. Evaluating older firearms in quite intimidating to me.

hayseed,

In my case it happened over a life time, engineering and historical knowledge handed down thru many generations of our family pertaining to L.C. Smith guns. I was very lucky to have become friends with John Houchins and Walt Schiessl had Freddie Brunner and Rich Painter work on my guns when needed, and learned so much from my Grandfather who's Father backed the Hunter Arms company monetarily until the day he died in 1913.

Thanks for the nice complement hayseed.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 110 Location: Eastern Washington

General question. How does one identify a Pre 13 gun from a Post 13 gun? Yes, I know, the owners huge smile! Kidding aside.....

http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/pre1913grades.html

AND

http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/manufacture.html

Montana16,

Most all the L.C. Smith Serial Numbers and date of manufacturing/sales documents are listed in both the L.C. Smith books, and the Cody Museum has most all the sale records, excepting the executive type guns, given to them by Bill Brophy after he recovered them when the Hunter Arms company went out of business. There are also different ways to identify the guns, if you have been schooled to do so, when actually inspecting the guns.

Good question however, because the better of the guns were made from 1913 and before. In most cases the pre 13 guns were all hand made, fit and finished. The one thing you must keep in mind is to never say never when it comes to L.C. Smith guns, the Hunter Arms Company made more Special Order one of a kind guns, than any other American gun maker. Many of these executive type guns, the full documentation was shipped with the gun to the purchaser. My family has many Special order one of a kind L.C. Smith double gun, and I have collected even more of them during my life time.

Bill Brophy wrote 2 books on L.C. Smith guns, The L.C. Smith Shotgun and The L.C. Smith Parts & Specifications Book, both very well done. John Houchins wrote the L.C. Smith Legend Lives book, another well done book. "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins.

Nobody knows everything when it come to the history of L.C. Smith Hunter Arms.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

A Special Order one of a kind 1901, 16 Gauge 00 two Barrel set, with #1gun Kraus Engraving. French Walnut Wood, DT and 2 different custom pre-production fore-ends for each differently choked set of Barrels, for shooting different Birds and Ducks.

Montana: pre-1913 guns are (mostly) numbered; 00, 0, 1, etc. Exceptions are the Pigeon & Monogram
Post-1913 are named; Field, Ideal, Trap, Specialty, etc.

The Hunter Arms Company maintained detailed order and production records, but all that remains are the shipping department ledgers which were recovered from a trash barrel by William Brophy; everything else was lost or destroyed by the Marlin Firearms Company.
Cody and the LCSCA have exactly the same records, but Dr Jim has exhaustively collated the microfiche records into "L.C. Smith Production Records". Research Letters may be requested from the LCSCA
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=43784&module_id=245742
More information is here under "History"
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784