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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  New Fiocchi 16ga hull crimp problem.
flyfrod
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 May 2020
Posts: 12
Location: Manheim, PA

So I recently purchased a 16 ga. die set for my MEC 600 jr press (pre 82). I made sure to order the correct die set for the older model. After installing the new die set I started reloading the new fiocchi hulls that I had purchased. I used the recipe suggested in the Lyman reloading handbook for a 1oz load with green dot as that was the powder I had available. After dropping and weighing the powder charge I proceeded the place the wad and drop the shot. I then started a 6 star crimp and then moved onto the next step. Here is where my problem lies, when I went to finished the crimp it pushed the crimp completely down in the hull. So I adjusted the cam crimp punch up as far as possible but still got the same result. I then adjusted the crimp die cam and swirled the crimp and collapsed the hull. So I backed off the crimp die cam a little and went back to pushing the crimp down in the hull. Am I doing something wrong or is just a trial and error until you get it right?
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I think you posted this question on SGW. I am on there as Dogchaser37.

The problem is the SP16 wad.

That wad is for 1 1/8 oz. loads and when using it for a 1 oz. load requires a spacer, usually card, fiber or felt about 1/8 to 3/16" thick to bring the wad column up to the correct height.

You can also use either the SG-16 wad or the B & P Z2M wad which are better choices for 1 oz. loads in straight wall hulls.

The wad column height should be about 5/16" +/- from the top of the shot to the mouth of the hull.

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flyfrod
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 May 2020
Posts: 12
Location: Manheim, PA

Yes I did and it was suggested that I trying posting it here as well. I just ordered some SG16 hulls to try.

Thanks
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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

I load on a 600 jr and have tried several wads. Never get good crimps out of the fiocchi hulls. The plastic is to thin. I have great crimps with every other hull in 16. I’m sure if I played with it I could get ok crimps, much better hulls out there then the fiocchi. I have tried 28 and 410 and pretty much the same horrible crimp. Buy cheddite and be done.
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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:56 pm  Reply with quote
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Welcome to the frustrated new 16 gauge reloader clinic. Just ask your questions here and you'll get fixed up.
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Flyfrod, the Fiocchi hull has very large capacity compared to other 16ga hulls and 1 oz and smaller loads need special treatment to fill up the hull. Start by trying the SG16 wad. Then add some filler if the crimp still collapses, as it is inclined to do. The best solution is to cut down the hills to 2 1/2” and use the SG16S wads. You will want the MEC short kit for this, or simply use a couple washers on the crimp station. In the end you will get excellent crimps.

BE CAREFUL with once fired Fiocchi hulls, the base wad can become dislodged which is dangerous. You must press them back down into place during the priming step.

But I agree with RGUILL above, Cheddite hulls are vastly superior to Fiocchi for reloading. Best to put your Fiocchi hills in long term storage, and purchase a couple hundred Cheddite hulls. Some folks here might even unburden themselves of some of their Cheddites for you for the cost of shipping.


Good Luck
B.
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culot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Mar 2020
Posts: 13
Location: SWEDEN

Brewster11 wrote:
Flyfrod, the Fiocchi hull has very large capacity compared to other 16ga hulls and 1 oz and smaller loads need special treatment to fill up the hull. Start by trying the SG16 wad. Then add some filler if the crimp still collapses, as it is inclined to do. The best solution is to cut down the hills to 2 1/2” and use the SG16S wads. You will want the MEC short kit for this, or simply use a couple washers on the crimp station. In the end you will get excellent crimps.

BE CAREFUL with once fired Fiocchi hulls, the base wad can become dislodged which is dangerous. You must press them back down into place during the priming step.

But I agree with RGUILL above, Cheddite hulls are vastly superior to Fiocchi for reloading. Best to put your Fiocchi hills in long term storage, and purchase a couple hundred Cheddite hulls. Some folks here might even unburden themselves of some of their Cheddites for you for the cost of shipping.


Good Luck
B.


Hi !

Don't cut down shell without reduce powder charge, sorry for using metric but i recommend at least reduce 0,05gram of powder, better is place a thin corc below shot , SG16 is also in 2 height 18 & 21mm

/ P
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Ohio Wirehair
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 546
Location: Ohio

Air soft pellets make easy to handle filler that are very light.Just drop them in the wad after it's seated but before the shot. I too prefer the SG16 wad over all others. Filler is just a way to use available components in my mind.
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4setters
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:06 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas

Frod,

Agree with MSM, if you are using SP16 wads, they won't work well for a variety of reasons. SP16 wads were designed for Remington hulls, which had much thicker plastic than modern straight-walled hulls (they also worked well in old CF Winchester hulls due to the taper toward the base). In addition to crimping woes, you will have powder migration woes if you carry these shells hunting very much. Use SG or Z hulls from BP or similar, as they are designed for modern straight wall hulls.

Once you reload a while, you should be able to look at the level of shot in an uncrimped shell and determine if it will crimp well, or whether you will need to adjust the shot height with some object such as bits of fiber wad, beans, Cheerios,, etc., to bring it up to proper height. This still leaves the issue of adjusting the final station on a Mec Jr. for a good crimp, but thats another subject that has been covered here in detail (do a search if necessary). Good luck.

_________________
16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke
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flyfrod
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:19 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 May 2020
Posts: 12
Location: Manheim, PA

Thank you all for the information.

4setter, it's funny you mention the fit of the SP16 wad. I was quite surprised when I could pull the wad back out of the hull with a finger.

I have purchased some SG16 wads to use as well as some felt cards the use up the SP16 wads for shooting sporting clays. I'm also going to try some cheddite hulls as well and if I can ever get my hands on some, I would like to load up some paper hulls. There's just something about chasing upland game with a good dog and an old shotgun with paper hull shells that just seems satisfying.

_________________
16 ga. Guns so far.
Remington 870 Mod.
Remington 31 Mod.
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4setters
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:00 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas

Satisfying? Like the smell when you pick up a fired round! Started doing that in the 60s, and have recently took to it again, particularly with my NID.

By the way, if you have a micrometer, mike a SP16 (Rem) and a SG16 and you'll find the Rem wads are smaller diameter. With a sample of one, I get about .635 for SP16, about .645 for SG16 (and about .630 for an old WAA16). That is why a Rem wad slides easily in a straight walled Cheddite-type hull (and contributes to powder migration). Rem and WAA16 wads need to be used in old CF Win hulls, Rem hulls and they are Ok in Feds, while SG16 wads need to be used in new straight walled hulls such as Fiocchis.

Mike

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2biXamy] [/url]jchiggins1 by Michael Widner, on Flickr

_________________
16 gauges:
1954 Win M12 IC
1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
1940 Ithaca NID M/F
1959 Beretta Silver Hawk
Ranger 103-II M/F
Browning A-5 Sweet 16
Browning Citori Invector
Rem 870 Remchoke
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I have 50 new Federal papers in 16 gauge, just waiting to be used this fall!! I have had these sitting around for at least 10 years and I won't use them in my 1100. Now that I have that Citori shooting where I am looking Yee-Haw!!

I think 1 1/8 oz. of #6's will work just fine.

I can't wait.

_________________
Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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flyfrod
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 May 2020
Posts: 12
Location: Manheim, PA

I have 20 rounds of Winchester papers that are 1-1/8" #6's that my grandfather had.

I ended up using some Apple Jacks as my filler and got some damn nice crimps. I loaded 25 to take to the range tomorrow as I'm itching to shoot the new model 31 that I got recently.

_________________
16 ga. Guns so far.
Remington 870 Mod.
Remington 31 Mod.
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