16ga.com ~ View topic - ITX Non-toxic shot

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Has anyone used ITX on pheasants? If so which size worked best?

Has anyone used the ITX manual?

Has anyone compared the hardness of Bismuth to ITX? Even if it was only the pliers test.

Thanks.

What has prompted this is, I posted a negative response in a FB group concerning Ballistics Products. I was contacted by Grant Fackler and we had a very civil telephone conversation. I deleted my FB post and in return Mr. Fackler sent me ITX and 16 Gauge Reloading Manuals. I came away from the conversation with a different perspective of how negative comments about a company can affect that company. So I don't want this to be a bashing thread, just looking for honest and accurate opinions.

I am concerned with the hardness of ITX and some of the loads in both manuals seem like the wad column height may or may not be correct. Before I spend money on ITX I would like some feedback.

Thanks.

Guest

Can't answer the ITX, but I've been hard on BP in the past regarding some load data that didn't work out. Truth is I've bought a lot from the company and will continue to use them, and I like what they do and offer. I'm done with my negative comments. Glad you brought this up, Mark.

Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

I’ve hunted with ITX10 #4 is what I used for pheasants. As for hardness I could crush it with pliers. It took more force than lead to crush and it broke into 5 or 6 chunks like it was brittle. It patterns horrible. If I remember right with a VP80 wad out of a full choke I was get 55% at 40yd. IMP and MOD chokes were essentially useless. I only bought it once. As soon as it was gone I switched to bismuth.

Mike

Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

Do a search there are tested ITX10 loads on this form that I would use before using the ITX manual. I also purchase a fair amount from BP but I won’t use their data.

Mike

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Mark , I did some testing with ITX awhile back. I remember that using the pliers test against Niceshot that it was alot harder , so much so that when I had some loads tested , I decided to use the VP80 steel shot wad . I don't remember it being brittle though .

Never shot any Pheasants with it but the couple times I used it for ducks it killed them just fine , Mallards and woodies .

Here is the final load I came up with tested Tom Armburst .

Hull : 16ga Federal 2 3/4” – Once Fired
Primer : CCI 209 Magnum
Powder: Alliant Steel 22.0 grains
Wad : PT-1680 (VP80) 4 Slits with (1) BPI 1/8” 20ga cork in cup
Shot: ITX10 #4 1 1/8 oz
Crimp 6 Fold .055 deep

5 shots

1196 FPS EV 8 11140 psi EV 300

That's all I could get out of it with the VP wad.

I would more than glad to send you some to test if you would like . I think I have # 4s.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

fn16ga,

Would you use that load in an older gun?

Concerned about chokes. I have a Model 12 with a full choke, a Model 37 with a modified choke and a Hunter Special with very tight Mod & Full chokes.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1309 Location: Western WA

ITX-10 has worked great for me for 3 seasons now. Terrific on pheasants, crumples them in the air. It knocks down greenheads at treetop level almost but not quite as well as lead, superior to bismuth and light years better than steel. I shoot it in all my field guns.

BPI has been outstanding with their ITX support for me. I called and asked what am I supposed to do with it in my 16 ga guns, and they ran a few tests at my request and provided a 1200 fps / 9500 PSI load for 1 1/8 oz of ITX-10 #4 in a 2 3/4" Cheddite hull. Contact BPI and ask for load no. 160928-9025 or PM me for details (not at liberty to publish it on websites).

I also have a tested 1 oz ITX-10 load but the particulars are not at hand at this moment, will locate it shortly.

I have not patterned ITX but the birds are peppered evenly with it, no clumping or shredding like the old original crazy hevishot stuff.

B.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Yes I have shot that load out of my olders guns Mod .015 or less but nothing with a full choke .

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Thanks for the input.

I just might try this stuff.

Mark,

I have loaded and used ITX (original 10) as well as ITX-13. My ITX-10 pellets came in at around 11 g/cc. That is .4 lb/in^3. Pure lead is 11.34 g/cc or .41 lb/in^3. So ITX-10, the softer stuff, is about the same density as hard lead/antimony shot! My ITX-13 came in at 12 g/cc! What a disappointment. Go figure -- I have never bought ITX-13 again, as I see no advantage to it over ITX-10, even if I wanted to load ITX-13 for modern, hard-plated open-choked barrels. I used the "pliers test", and there was a great hardness difference between ITX-10 and ITX-13. I do not hesitate to shoot ITX-10 in regular old steel barrels, and have not seen any damage. I think it is good stuff.

ITX pellets are sintered, I believe. The sintering process uses heat and pressure to compact and bond powdered material into a mass, without really melting the powder. Due to slight variations in the powdered material and the sintering process, I believe one might find batch-to-batch variations in the density of these ITX products that are greater than one might find in products made in processes which melt the constituents into a liquid. Those variations might be the reason for what my density tests revealed. I wonder if anyone else has checked the density of both of these ITX shots.

Member Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Minnesota

Good insight MaxSmoke. BPI supplied me with an ITX manual when it first came out but I've never used the shot. I thought it was being marketed as safe for vintage guns? An alternative to Bismuth. Maybe I misunderstood what BPI told me??

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

PatrickB,

Grant told me that both he an his Dad use ITX-10 in their older guns and he told me that is why ITX-10 is sold, for use in old shotguns.

Anyway from the responses I have gotten, I am still very much on the fence.

I know what Bismuth does, I have good loading data for Bismuth. Yeah Bismuth is more expensive than ITX but 100% confidence is much better than 50% confidence. Besides I am a reloader, I don't shoot factory ammo unless I absolutely have to. Not that I think there is anything wrong with factory ammo because I don't, I just like to use my own loads.

Thanks for the responses and the advice.

Keep those cards and letters coming, I want as much info as I can get.

Right now it is 50/50 whether I use ITX or not. I have their ITX manual. Thoughts? I haven't been able to reload anything yet because all my reloading equipment is packed and ready to be moved, so that is why I ask.

Use it Mark! You will like it.

The ITX-10 I have is at least 15% more dense than bismuth. (It came in at 11 g/cc.) My batch was the same density as hard lead shot. It's got to be better than bismuth. At about .34 lb/in^3, Bismuth shot density is almost exactly half way between that of typical lead shot (.40 lb/in^3) and steel (.28 lb/in^3). Even if your batch of ITX-10 should come in at only 10 g/cc, that is still .36 lb/in^3 -- superior to bismuth by 6%. Bismuth surely does not perform as well as lead. With bismuth, you need to go up about one shot size larger for the same pellet muzzle energy. No need to do that with ITX-10. Also, there was no fracturing into pieces on the pliers test with the ITX-10 I have. I even took a hammer to it. For me, it is the best non-toxic lead replacement for guns that must shoot "barrel safe" shot, by far.

Pattern's bad? Maybe, but I'd have to see some comparative data on that, as ITX seems to be doing the job when I shoot it. Yes, I know that isn't "scientific", either.

Cheers!
Tony

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1309 Location: Western WA

Mark,

Whether ITX is the right non toxic shot for your needs is up to you. Because it contains a significant amount of tin, I believe it poses little risk of bulging a barrel or blowing a choke tube out the muzzle as steel shot will do.

ITX contains tungsten which is harder than steel, and the pellets will scratch barrel steel per my own experimentation. The PT1680 wad (or its equivalents) is very thick and tough and will not likely allow the pellets to penetrate through the wad material and contact the barrel. Also, the entire ITX load is fully contained within the PT1680 shot cup.

However there may be scratches down the barrel where the slits (made by the user) in the wad may allow the pellets to contact the barrel. Notwithstanding that effect, I doubt any significant barrel damage will accumulate from shooting ITX because the orientation of the wad slits will be random.

The ITX-10 pellet has a belt, but its effect on downrange velocity and pattern is unknown to me. I have been unable to pattern test ITX-10 due to shot size rules at our shotgun range. I will have to pattern test it at the local rifle range instead, or possibly perform a test in the field.

The following 2 1/2" ITX-10 load was tested by T. Armbrust:
Hull: 2 1/2" Cheddite
Primer: Cheddite 209
Powder: 24 gr Alliant Steel
Wad: PT1680 cut down 1/4"
Shot: 1 oz ITX-10 #4
Crimp: 6 fold
Avg PSI: 11640
Avg Vel: 1295 FPS

This is obviously a very effective hot load but it could be cooled down by a half grain or so. Note: It is NOT a BPI approved load.

BPI did extensive testing of 16ga ITX loads at my request and they found that Steel powder and Cheddite hulls to be the best combination for 16ga, but other hulls and powder combinations were unsuitable. I credit BPI for doing a thorough job finding an effective moderate pressure 16 ga ITX-10 load. Again, PM me for specifics on the BPI approved load, or contact BPI directly.

V/R
B.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Brewster11,

Thanks for the load.