16ga.com ~ View topic - Thanks to 16gaugeguy for the shooting instructions

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

"16gaugeguy" ...thanks for the instructions for moving from 7.5 lb 12 gauges to 6.5lb M12 Winchester 16 gauge. Slowing down and paying attention to basics of shotgunning really worked. breaking 23 to 24 on skeet with no real problems. Shooting low gun (which is the only way to shoot skeet for hunting practice that makes sense) and playing with delayed releases (sometimes quail do not flush when you say "pull").

this m12 16 gauge has introduced me to the fine delights of the 16 bore and I consider it my "Christmas Present"...what a wonderful little gun that delivers big results.

Again, thanks..

Tom

Tom, I'm very glad to be of service. One aspect of shooting some folks mistakenly relegate to a secondary spot is seeing the target quickly and clearly. In any hand-eye function, we must first get our eyes on the objective be it a ball to catch, a branch to jump to, or a moving target to hit.
In any of these efforts, our eyes have to beat our hands or the gun in them to the objective.

Shooting from a rigid stance with gun glued to the face is a hinderence in field shooting. Most competative skeet shooters try to break the target about 1/2 to 2/3rd of the way to the center pole while it is still under the influence of the throwing arm spring and its flight path has had no chance to be influenced by wind. This style of slot, groove, or window shooting has no place in the game fields, or anywhere the targets appearance, flight path, and speed is unknown until seen.

Most top Sporting clays shots know this importance of seeing the target as quickly and clearly as possible. They almost never glue their heads to the stock unless they are dead certain they will be able to see the target very quickly with the gun premounted and head to wood.

Shooting low gun skeet helps us locate and lock onto the target without having our heads glued to the stock. This style gives us more freedom to do so. Once we practice the style a bit, we find ourselves getting on the target a bit faster, especially on a windy day or under less than perfect lighting conditions. Bringing the muzzle to and through the target as we simultaneously bring the gun to our face and shoulder becomes second nature. Holding the gun about level to the ground, and orienting our bodies to the point we will hit the target helps do it smoother and faster.

Unfortunately, as was done with skeet shooting, the low gun requirement was dropped from sporting clays shooting at the behest of the gun manufacturers for all the same foolish reasons it was dropped from skeet. That is, so their standard, mass produced stocks will be easier to use to at least hit some targets. However, far too many of these new shooters will never be inclined to learn the basic wingshooter's move from low gun, and will never develop into a solid all around shot until they do.

Believe me, I've been out in the field with folks who can run 24 or 25 skeet targets, but can't reliably hit a flushing grouse or quail worth a darn. To many, its humiliating and frustrating. Many just give up and never bother to hunt much. In the long run, its bad for the entire shooting community to lose these folks. Once they are no longer competative on the skeet field, we lose them entirely. They never learn the joys of hunting, the companionship of a fine bird dog on a beautiful fall day, or the satisfied feeling of dining on game gathered and brought to the table through one's own skill and effort. That is a lot to lose to ignorance and poor shooting fundamentals.

This rule change will not hurt the top shots who always use a gun with a perfectly fitted stock and who also know when, where, and how to modify their shooting style or approach to different shot presentations. What it will do is perpetrate the false idea that shooting gun up is better and easier. So quite a few new shooters will never learn to shoot well in the field. That is a shame.

If you practice the basic move-mount-shoot sequence, it will become second nature. A lighter gun helps do it faster. Once this style is mastered, there is not a shot you will ever see in the field that you won't be able to automatically perform. Your wingshooting will become deadly and sure. I've never seen it fail, and you will have mastered a skill that will serve you well for life. Good luck.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

This time of year I switch from a 10lb weighted,tubed,R.A.D. equipped Browning o/u to a 1100 or M12 for hunting---16GG is right on several points---To practice going from the ones that fly when requested to the real thing I help the neighbors by reducing the sparrows,blackbirds and pidgeon populations.There is a real difference bewteen the skeet field and the hunting field-I enjoy both.The lack of game here(SE Illinois) was what led me to shooting skeet Wink

With the CRP acres being farmed again,the lack of cover(fencerows,hedgerows,etc.) and the fields farmed from ditch to ditch and the high effeciency of the modern combine there is little to sustain the once abundant rabbit/pheasant population Evil or Very Mad

HOA, I mean no disrespect to folks who compete in NSSA Skeet. They are bound by the rules of a formalized game, and must do what they have to to compete. I shoot ATA trap, a target game about as far removed from real wingshooting as one can get. I have compartmentized the two shooting styles and even my attitude towards them. Its almost like going from rifle shooting to shotgunning instead of one shotgunning style to another.

I don't know if you have access to a 5 stand set up or a sporting clays course in your area. I do, and now shoot 5 stand at least twice a month. If shot with low gun as both SC and 5 stand as was originally intended by the creators of the game, both will give you a chance to address target presentations you neve see on a skeet field but sometimes do when hunting. Both games are a challange and a lot of fun to shoot.

Unfortunately, American SC has been infused with the same short sighted mentality that ruined skeet. The low gun rule has been dropped so folks with ill fitting stocks can feel they can compete. The same empty promises of wider participation and more revenue were made. Its baloney, but there it is.

As always, the folks who are smart enough and commited to the game enough to have their stocks fitted to them and make the effort to learn to shoot properly and will always win. This is true in any individual sport.

Changing the rules in any game to make it more acceptable to and easier for the industry that makes the equipment never works. Just the opposite is the right way. All one has to do is look at golf and how its governed to understand why it has remained as successful as it has. The various colf associations are all commited to preserve the game and to protect it from manufacturing interests or any faction that would ruin the game through self interest. The governing bodies that administer to our shooting sports could learn something from the various golf associations.

I have returned to shooting after a 20 year plus layoff. I was at my local range is weekend and saw this gentlemen in action. One of his main points was also that the shooter must not only see the target, but concetrate on a specfic portion of the target.

I watched him take a 12 year old girl who had never shot before, from shooting at a blank target to shooting at a cup hung on a string, to shooting and hitting a knot on the string that held the cup.

The man's name is Leon Weathers, you can check him out here http://www.shootwhereyoulook.com

SS, you have a point about the cheating factor. It exists in any game. In trap, its the guys who use the slow pull excuse or the failure to fire rule to pass up a hard right or left target. Most of the ATA affiliated trap clubs now have voice release systems, which has put a dent in the cheating. However, you still see it. I've seen some folks pass up two or three targets per round with nothing said by the scorer. If it was me scoring, I'd ask why the target was passed on. If the shooter did not give a proper reason, he'd loose that bird. The next time and every time after would cost him a target too. As a participant, it's not my place to worry about it. I have enough to concentrate on.

Rules that are not religiously adhered to or are unfairly administered will ruin a game. Changing them to make it easier for the cheaters is stupid in my opinion. The NSSA might have used the cheating factor as an excuse to knuckle under to the pressure and financial influence both Remington and Winchester were already exerting. Both companies were committed to making skeet the number one shooting game in America. However, they wanted it done their way. They got what they wanted, and everyone else paid the price in the long run.

In comarison, ATA trap has taken a different tack. As far as low gun vs gun up, the game was originally designed for high gun shooting long ago. The target speeds and presentations are set for that style. The administrators also decided long ago to follow the example of the PGA and the USGA. With few exeptions, they pretty much hold the line on the rules and have even tightened up on them. In the last decade, a number of top trap shooters have found themselves reprimanded and stripped of a title due to questionable practices and falsified data.

The ATA has been woking on its rules book in the last 5 years with an eye for eliminating certain practices that injure the game. A good example is the narrowing of the regulated height and distance window for setting a target. Doing so has stopped the practice of throwing a very low target so certain folks at a club who shoot with one eye will not have to deal with a more properly set target height or so a slower shooter will have an easier time with shorter set, slower targets.

Even though trap had gone through the minor decline most shotgun games went through in the last decade due to the political meddling of certain government agencies under the Clinton adminstration, it is now on the rebound again. I think the administration's attitude of leveling the playing field the correct way by demanding compliance with the rules has helped. Doing so brings out the best in everyone in the long run and eliminates the finagling of those folks who love an unfair edge and who bring the whole game down with them.

As for USSA registered shooting, I think its too late to go back. The damage has been done and its permenant. Perhaps the USSCA might decide to recind their gun up rule or at least open up a low gun division as well as demand shoots be administered and refereed fairly and strictly. I think that would be a wise course to take. However, until it does, I will remain a non-registered shooter and will continue to shoot low gun just for fun. Its in my own best interest. It makes me a better shot in the long run IMO.