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Mine say, Olin Corp. Made in USA on the bottom side of the box.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

I can't say I have ever seen those hulls used for ammo made in USA by Winchester. They are definitely the same hulls that I have. Mine were bought as a case through Jerry's Sports Center (distributor in the northeast) in either late 1999 or early 2000.

I THINK that they were made in Italy from 1999 until 2002 maybe 2003, but it wasn't long before every thing started coming from Australia, in Cheddite hulls. (Maybe someone else has a better recollection)

But your ammo is a new one on me. I am not doubting you at all. I just learned something.

Excellent, Mark and 4setters,et al!! I learn something every day. Thanks for adding to the "knowledge" file, guys. Interesting to see the wadding -- the waxed paper over-powder cup and then the fiber wads. That is no doubt the last vestige of "vintage" Olin conventional wad construction. I was surprised to see the Mark 5 sleeve! The black basewad is also a giveaway, and I should have believed you when you mentioned the slight longitudinal ridges, as that is also a dead give-away it is not a CF hull, and the "textural" difference from Win-Cheddites I mentioned earlier. I was simply stuck on my 6-point crimp only assumption. Now I know, thanks to you fellows.

Best Regards to All, Merry Christmas and All the Best in the New Year!

Cheers!
Tony

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

I guess these fell in between the CF hulls & the chedite hulls? I have some made with what looks to be the same type plastic. Super tough hulls. I purchased 3 flats of some Upland loads that look just like the ones above with the exception of having a steel silver base. I recently bought a box of duck & pheasant that had the high brass and was in fact brass. Box is that mainly white with the red & orange. Those have a heat sealed crimp in the center of the fold which I hope isn't an issue later. Have some dove & quail in those ugly yellow & white boxes look the same as the D&P just low brass, but the same heat sealed spot in the center of the crimp. Are these all the Italian hull

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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

I have never seen the hulls in a 'Made in Italy' box with a heat sealed crimp.

Doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

These boxes all say made in the USA, so I don't known what determines where hull was made.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

The white box with red writing might have the Martignoni hulls.

The other two box styles have hulls that were made in the US, quite awhile before Winchester started going to outside sources.

To the best of my knowledge the Martignoni hulls were always 8 point crimp and never heat sealed.

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

Does anyone know how to determine the age of Winchester shotgun shells from the box code?

*Last edited by skeettx on Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total*

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/dating-of-winchester-boxes-by-lot-number/14446

and

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=178198

I'm not the final say, but I believe you will find that the Dove and Quail and the Duck and Pheasant loads with the heat sealed crimp are much earlier shells than the Upland shells with 8 star crimp that are shown in the above pic. As best I know, all 16 gauge Winchester/Western straight-walled plastic hulls with heat sealed crimps (as well as all CF Mark V and low base Upland/Expert loads, which had heat sealed crimps) were made in the late 60s through about 1990 or so. They may have been made concurrent to the Compression Formed (CF) Dove and Quail 8 star crimp shells of the 90s, I just can't remember (all I was buying then was CF Winnies, for reloading). Note the paper basewads on the W/W Dove and Quail and Duck and Pheasant in the pic below (which of course, differ from the plastic one piece tapered hulls of CF and the later plastic basewad of the two piece straight walled shells in question in earlier posts in this thread and later Cheddite-type Winchesters).

All plastic Winchester/Western shells from the late 60s through around 1995 (when WAA16s wads were used for a few years) had fiber wads and shot protections sleeves.

Heat sealed crimps in Winnies? In my opinion, made by Winchester prior to 2000, and probably prior to 1990.

The heat sealed shells above are not equal to Cheddite-type Winchesters for reloading purposes.

By the way, these older heat sealed crimp Win shells were poor for reloading (high paper basewads, flimsy plastic, poor crimps, etc.). A while back Skeettx posted about reloading some of them, but I've not looked up that post.

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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

4setters,

Using the links that Skeettx provided, I believe my 8 star crimp 16 gauge Upland shells that I pictured above and then pictured again as cut-up shells were made on Aug. 12, 1997 if I'm reading the code right (C2MH21Y). This would place their manufacture probably just after the end of the manufacture of CF Dove and Quail shells, one box of which the Lot number that I have would equate to October 12, 1995 (C2KL21). Both of these dates would fall within the estimates I've made about when they were manufactured in my above posts, with the straight walled Uplands coming after the CF Dove and Quail shells.

In both cases, the "date" code is preceded by C2. In the second link above, the author states that the 2 in an example he gives (A2) is a packing number, and that the A means the shells were loaded at the Winchester factory. I wonder what the C indicates? Also, what does the Y on the end of the Upland Lot Code mean?

AND the paper base hull loads REALLY smell good when used
with Green Dot Smile

Sktx,

But only about half as good as an all paper, paper basewad reload with Green Dot!

Mike

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

Had a bit of luck today with this find & purchase. The only thing is it raises more questions at least with me. The time line and construction of the CF hulls seem to have no rhyme or reason. Out of the 26 boxes, which are all 3 1/4 Drams & 1 1/8 oz lead. I found 4 groups that are alike and of that 3 are 7 1/2 shot and the other are 9's. All have that they are compression formed mark 5 in SUPER X. {18} say CF and have the 8 peddle crimp and the X is red. (1) box everything looks the same with the exception of the crimp it's a 6 peddle with the heat sealed center. (2) are the same except the X is yellow 6 peddle crimp heat sealed in the center. (5) are exactly the same as the 2 boxes with the exception of being #9 shot. These appear to have been all from the same time frame very little variation in the boxes.
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