16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

I've been using my born-1979 Simson 12 ga since I bought it new-in-box in 1983. It's reliable, tough and accurate (despite having been made by communists).

You'll have a hard time going wrong buying a German double, but for two things. First, I'd avoid the Thalmann doubles and the Merkel/Simson "model 8" guns. Those would have been made during communism and almost certainly were not made for the export market. The key with communist-era guns is to get a "Q1" gun. That's a stamp, usually found on the side of a barrel lug, which indicates the gun was "Qualitat Eins" or "First quality", made to high standards and intended for the export market. Simpson's, for all they do, do not list whether the gun is "Q1". Thalmann guns are almost all not Q1. Simson and Merkel "model 8" usually are not.

Second, pre-war German guns are often short-chambered (by today's standards). 2.5 inch 16 ga is common - almost universal - and 2.5 inch 12 ga is common.

My gun is a Q1 gun. I've shot it a lot at both targets and game. It's a darn good gun. You'll have a hard time going wrong with a German gun.

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 603 Location: Victoria BC Canada

Dave; I lucked into a Molel 8 in 16 gauge from tradexcanada. 'Though not advertised, it arrived with a Q1 mark. My first shots, at trap, garnered 23/25 in an "Edwardian" match at my gunclub.

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

None of the German guns I have brought home have had a q mark but all of those were Gi bring back guns.
I like to think about those great Americans bringing these home and hunting with them. The stories they could have told. I can only imagine how they would parallel my grandfathers drilling. It makes restoring and hunting these guns quite the fun!
I think this last one I just sent out will be enough for me to stop and just enjoy shooting and hunting these guns for a long while.

16ga 30” perfect barrels, tight, ejectors, engraved with game scene floral and scroll.
I wish it had secondary sear but it had everything else.
Obviously I can’t say enough great things about these pre war German bring back guns.

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

The "Q1" mark is only for guns made in the former East Germany from after WWII until reunification. The communists in charge there realized early on that their system deprecated quality and they couldn't earn Western hard currency with junk that wouldn't sell. So they created the distinction of "Quality made for the export market", signified by the Q1 mark. Q1 guns are true German quality. Those without the Q1 were suitable for communist subjects only.

But, to circle back, you won't find a Q1 mark on pre-war German guns - the GI bringbacks - because there was no need for it before the communists took over and no one could even conceptualize selling less than high-quality products. Similarly, post-reunification there is no need for the Q1 because the capitalists running the factory don't and won't make products that are second-rate expecting to sell them for first-rate prices.

Joined: 28 Oct 2015 Posts: 166 Location: SWMO

Hadn’t paid attention (or likely forgot) but my 1965 Simson has the Q1 mark.

Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 684 Location: Ontario