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Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Memphis, TN

I am shooting a Model 12, chambered for 2 3/4" shells. I have a ton of Federal Game Load hulls, high-brass with the ribbed plastic. I'm planning on getting a Lee Load All to load some bismuth to shoot through this gun, but I am looking for a good recipe.

I have experience reloading 12ga shells on a MEC 650, but no expereience with either 16ga or the Lee.

Factory 16ga bismuth is only 1200fps, which seems slow to me. I would think 1300fps should be easily in reach. Anyway, I am looking for advice. Thanks.

Guest

Since bismuth is less dense as lead, you need to go down one shot size to get the same performance as lead. I would probably start with the 1200 fps loads since bismuth can be brittle which would affect your overall patterns. I have had very good sucess with using the various poly filler to improve the pattern but their use will increase overall chamber pressure. My recommendation would be find a good receipe of a 1 1/8 oz load @ 1200 fps in either #6s or 5s and going with the poly filler (provided the chamber pressure is reasonable for your gun) Shoot a few patterns on the board and if it looks fine, try it out on the birds. I think you will have a very good 30-35 yard load.

These loads from the Hodgdon website should work for you, although I'm guessing at a one-ounce load in the SP16 wad you may need to use a filler of some sort (some of the Rev's puffed cereal, perhaps)

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/shotshel/bismuth/16fed.php#top

This is the load I use (1300 FPS), and as previously mentioned, because it's buffered it seems to pattern better:

Fiocchi hull
27.5 grains Blue Dot
Fiocchi F616 primer
Ballistic Products MM16 wad
1 1/8 ounce #5 Bismuth
12 grains of buffer and a 1/8" 20 gauge felt wad in the bottom of the shot cup.

I also always use an overshot card on any Bismuth or steel load to get more consistent crimps. I don't seem to notice much difference in the pattern (however, it may affect velocity), but I coated the wads in BP's mica wad slick. The wads come unslit -- I get the best patterns using a modified choke with four slits in the wads to about a quarter inch from the bottom of the shot cup. And now that I think of it, this load may not have needed the filler wad -- I loaded enough for the entire duck season several months ago, and I can't remember.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Don't push the velocity too hard, Biz is brittle and broken pellets start to be a probelm if you push the load too hard. 1200 is plenty fast.

When you buy your biz, hit one pellet with a light hammer and prove to yourself thet it needs to be treated a little bit gently.

Jeff

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Memphis, TN

I am not looking for ridiculous speed, but something in the 1300 range. Factory Bismuth loads are as fast as 1350, so it doesn't seem like 1300 would be pushing too hard. But I am open to any thoughts to the contrary.

Guest

For the "average" hunter, they equate a "good" load with moderate velocity along with payload. The ammo companies try to sell their ammo based upon that perception of consumer demand rather than facts. Basically, if you're trying to shoot steel shot (which you're not in your nice 16 but stay with me on this), having a velocity of at least 1450 fps makes a relatively deadly load since steel is 80% of the density of lead and does not deform (which until hevi shot came on the scene was the standard). The problem with Bismuth is it is almost as dense as lead but very brittle. If you can get your hands on a ballistic chart for Bismuth, you would find that there is very little downrange retained energy difference between 1200 and 1350 fps. The only problem with going with the "hotter" load is that you may "crush" some pellets. With lead, all you have is some deformed shot but with Bismuth, the shot can literally turn to dust when crushed under sufficient pressure. Bottom line is you may launch your load with a faster speed but actually have fewer pellets to do the work. There are a few people on this BB with some real deal knowledge on certain subjects. My best suggestion would be for you to load a few load of both 1200 and 1350 fps loads along with different powders and go to the patterning board. IMO, I got the best results with the lower velocity with a nice consistent slow burning powder but that was for me....

Good luck

If anyone wants to roll some up for me I'll be more than happy to support this endeavor. The Kent TM 1.25 #5 load was my honey load and with the prices thru the roof I have been scrambling to find a suitable replacement. I really like shooting my sweet sixteen for waterfowl but with the lack of loads commercially produced I am considering moving to a 12 ga. OOUCHH! I really do not want to do that. Lastly I just don't have the time to roll my own loads so.........my options are? anyone?

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

I have stated in the past that the 16 gauge Bismuth factory loads are excellent for waterfowl. Gander Mountain seems to do the best job in my area, at stocking these. I bought a 25 round box two years ago for about $30. They are 1 1/8 oz. of #4's. I think you can get them in #6 too. I've used them in my Merkel 1620 and in my 16 ga. full choke Model 12, as well as my 16 ga. Citori. Most of our ducks are shot jump-shooting or occasionally over decoys, so the shots are usually 25 yards or less.
I try to buy these shells when they are marked down at season's end---now would be a good time to find them! Some will say they are expensive, but by the time you run around looking for proper components and/or pay the shipping to have components sent to you, you probably have spent about as much. Also, in my case, I'd really rather spend my time shooting and hunting, not reloading. For factory loads, you might try these; they put the ducks down to stay.

I am using the 1 oz loads of Bismuth and they work fine in my woody hole but when I start heading out to open water is where I start feeling a little nervous. It would be nice if we all started petitioning the manufactures of non toxic shot to offer more of a selection. #5 Bismuth would be perfect in my opinion.

Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 26 Location: Finland

I have got the impression, that bismuth is less brittle nowadays, as it was when it was introduced. This would be because the bismuth is now alloyed with some tin to make the metal less brittle. At least this is what Eley-Hawk does, according to their home page. Of course, this makes the alloy a little less dense also.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

The Bismuth loads I refer to above, do work fine on big ducks like mallards, especially at the shorter ranges I'm shooting. Frankly, if a guy were doing a lot of 45-50 yard pass shooting on big ducks, I wouldn't use a 16 ga. at all---I'd use a 12, with 1 1/4 oz. of #4 Hevi-Shot out of respect for the birds. Yes, you can kill 'em with a 16 at that range---I've done it too---but I hate to lose even one bird...

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

pbr,

Bizmuth is available in #5.

Jeff

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Well, I must have been fortunate because about $30 was the price I paid for 25; it was an end -of-year sale. But I have since seen them sold in packs of 10 for $15.99---bought a box at a Cabela's in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin for that price in early November. I salute you for loading your own if you like to. Some consider reloading a pastime in itself and there is certainly both art and science in the endeavor---I was just never one of those people.

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Memphis, TN

Bump - to see if anyone else has any loads they recommend.