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February 1915 Outdoor Life
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1915-02_35_2/page/124/mode/2up?view=theater

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3439 Location: Illinois

One of THE great gun gurus Cool

Joined: 27 Jan 2016 Posts: 491 Location: Oswego, Kansas

And his words are just as true today!

Guest

Those old articles are fun to read, and I believe the learned shooters of that era had a more complete understanding of the nuances of shotgun design and game shooting. I’ve found Askin’s findings dovetail with what I’ve experienced. My 30” Iside is my all round 16. It’s built on 12 gauge frame as confirmed by Cold Iron and myself measuring 12 and 16 gauge Isides with his dial caliper. The 30” Isides are easy shooters and will take the pounding of any ammo you stuff in it. Interesting to read Askins’s thoughts on that. I had sling swivels installed on mine to expand its use into duck hunting. My “upland” 16 gauge guns are a pair of Webley & Scotts which weigh 5 3/4 and 6 lbs. Screw the 20 gauge.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 756 Location: Mn.

Drew thank you for posting that, great read!

The thing that jumped out at me the most was the very last paragraph-

107 years ago, tells you how far ahead of his time the good Major was. Too bad the gun makers of the time didn't listen to him. I have no interest in shooting guns of that era due to the dog leg stocks and drop on most of them. But love the history of them. Major Atkins Sr. prefered even less drop at the heel then most guns made today. I prefer just a bit more than 2" but not much. And most of mine are about 1/8" more at the comb, because that is how they are made by most today, so in the end his dimensions and mine pretty much match.

He was spot on. I shot 5 stand last weekend and it is getting close to hunting season so broke out the 6 pound 16 ga. Iside's, well 2 out of the 3 of them I own. 7/8 oz. are for those and in the 7 pound 30" Plantation Sporter used 1 oz. which is identical to his custom 16 ga. including other dimensions.

Friend of mine that several of us have been trying to talk into the 16 ga. shot a round with the 30" DT Iside and ended up with a 24 out of 25 with it. After he shot it his comment was the only thing keeping it from perfect would be a semi beavertail. I don't disagree with him and have had the same thought but I do OK with the splinters on the Iside for some reason.

After hunting season I am selling the 3 Isides and having a custom 16 built for me. Have always loved the FAIR Jubilee Golds and 900's with CC sideplates and gold bird inlays even if they are false plates. 2 barrels one 30" and going back and forth on 26" bbl. or 28" for the other. And one a splinter the other a semi beavertail.

The 16 ga. Plantation Sporter which matches the Major's custom built 16 ga. is perfect IMO and apparently the Major, for clays, and it is not going anywhere.

Fred Gilbert (1865-1928) was one of the world’s best known shooters from 1895-1915 and used a L.C. Smith to win the DuPont World’s Pigeon Shooting Championship in 1895 and the “E.C.” Inanimate Target Championship Cup in 1896.
The “Fred Gilbert Specifications” were for a drop at comb of 1 3/8 inches; at the heel, 2 inches; length from trigger to heel, 14 1/4 inches; trigger to toe 14 1/2 inches; and trigger to center of butt 14 inches; with a full pistol grip and 30-inch full choke barrels.
That, of course, was for his Live Bird and Inanimate Target gun.

[url=https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Trapshooting/i-GmFPfpk/A]

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At that point Hunter Arms' standard DOH was still 2 3/4"

Lots of information regarding turn-of-the-century stock dimensions and mount is here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7UkkNyMTZ9NAztILpzjSLKvgIneAw5i7eqkZ3d3Eno/edit

Guest

My Webleys are both 1 3/8 x 2 and they point so well.

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

I’ve handled English guns from the 1850s that had what we would call modern dimensions. Only took us 150 years to figure it out.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

I can’t shoot a gun with only 2” of drop at the heel very well at all. But, I can’t shoot one with 3” of drop very well either.

2 3/4” works, but, 2 1/2” is better.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 21 May 2015 Posts: 128

4 tons / 1100 ±fps

I think that speaks plenty...

4 tons would be 8,960 by LUP so modern transducer pressure would be about 10,000 psi
Speed was measured as an "average" over 20 (or 40 yds), so would represent a 3' from the muzzle of about 1200 fps.
Basically the 1 oz. 2 1/2 Dr.Eq. standard of today.

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1975 Location: Maine

"The 16-bore is an accepted and standard gauge. Everybody knows that it is a good gun, that it will do everything which can be accomplished with a smaller bore and much which comes within the special province of the 12 .... The wielder of a 16-gauge as a rule just says nothing and saws wood."

I hope he was getting paid by the word.

DaveinMaine,

Thank for your Maine wisdom, your analysis is right on the money.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1975 Location: Maine

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1700 Location: Minnesota

Mr Gilbert must know what he was talking about if he liked 16ga Elsies. Just returned from a western bird hunting trip. One of the guns I took along was my 1928 16ga FW set up almost identical to his;just a little more DAH. Best run was 12 shots for 13 birds over 2 consecutive days.