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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Blue Dot for Pheasants?
brent
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:01 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

I'm helping a friend get a start in reloading. He just took delivery of a nice 1924 Sauer double. I do not currently have a 16 ga ( Sad ), but I do have some 16 gauge components for reloads that I used to make using 7625. That's not available now, but I do have some Blue Dot and some BPI 072SG16 wads. I just can't find a recipe that puts those two together. I'm hoping for 1 1/8 oz loads in the 1250 fps range. Can anyone offer some help?

If necessary, I can try Longshot and I have some recipes for that, but I'd rather use the BD if at all possible.

Thanks
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

There are Blue Dot loads but only one that I have seen using that wad.....and you would need to have Activ hulls. This load is listed in the Lyman 5th.


IMHO, it would be much easier to use the Longshot, but the velocities are 1,295 and up.

Hodgdon has the data, using the wads you have and Winchester plastic hulls, the current hull. They are Cheddite hulls actually.

Ever consider some 1 oz. loads? Lots more data for 1 oz. using those wads.....but probably not Blue Dot.

You can also go on the Precision Reloading website, go to their contact email and ask for their data, which actually just might be the best place.

Then there is always using Blue Dot with the Remington hull, with the Rem SP16 wad, which is available.

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brent
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

MSM, thanks for the reply. I think we will have to go with the Longshot. Down the road, I believe he should go for the SP16 wad (is that a straight wall or tapered wad?).

There are many more SP16 loads than any other. But for now, we need to use what we have so he can be in the field in a week. (we will load what we can on Tuesday).

Sure could go with 1 oz loads but both of us come from 12 gauges, and we tend to like a few more pellets to ensure a broken wing and leg, if not out right mortality.

I did email BPI asking for some suggestions. They had no loads with Blue dot but did give me some Longshot loads - which I already had from Lyman 5. That's okay. We can make that work.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

The SP16 will work in the old tapered Winchester compression formed 16 gauge hull.

It will also work well in the Remington RGL hull as it has a small I.D. for a 16 gauge.

It is not so good with the other straight wall hulls like the Federal, RIO, Cheddite/Winchester, Fiocchi etc.

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mcrewz
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

Here are a few from Alliant website. https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?page=/reloaders/powderlist.aspx&type=2&powderid=10&gauge=16


Mike
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mcrewz
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

After studying Lyman’s 16ga loads the sp16, trap commander (BP), and SG16 (gulandi) all give similar pressures everything else being equal.(with in 300-400 psi). While sg16 and tc16 are larger diameter and seal better they also have a much softer legs/crush section than the sp16. As long as I’m not pushing the edge of the envelope I sub in the trap commander and sg16. I highly recommend staying away from longshot sp16 combo in a straight walled hull. Longshot will migrate very bad and give inconsistent loads and potentially bloopers.

Mike
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mcrewz
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

Hodgdon online data. https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=55

Mike
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Uh, I wouldn't bet that the SP 16 and the SG 16 will produce the same chamber pressure across the board, as that isn't true.

I am not sure that you want to put a lot of faith in BPI data or reloading advice.

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brent
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:14 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

I have been tempted by the SP16 to SG16 substitution. The loads I'm looking at are relatively low (sub 9k psi) and the gun is a strong one (Sauer in very good condition). Also, we will be roll crimping. However, it's not my gun and I am reluctant to do that. I think he should invest in sp16 wads down the road because the number of recipes is so large, but until then will stick with SG16 recipes and Longshot powder.

The comment about powder migration with LS using mismatched wads and hulls is very helpful. I went down that road with 12 gauge loads and exactly that happened. Every one in 10 or 20 rounds would fail to ignite, leaving a pheasant to escape. Had to cut apart 100 shells to salvage the Bismuth, powder, and primer. I want to avoid that.


Thanks everyone for the comments. They are very helpful.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Brent,

You can do anything you want.

I will tell you that in 95% of the applications subbing an SG16 for an SP16 will cause more chamber pressure, sometimes 500 PSI and sometimes 2,000 PSI. I have had it happen with a load that I sent to Tom Armbrust.

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brent
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

MSM2019 wrote:
Brent,

You can do anything you want.

I will tell you that in 95% of the applications subbing an SG16 for an SP16 will cause more chamber pressure, sometimes 500 PSI and sometimes 2,000 PSI. I have had it happen with a load that I sent to Tom Armbrust.


Like I just said, I don't think we will be making the substitution.
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brent
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

The world is not friendly to 16s it seems. I found 100 Federal paper cases in my basement in mint condition (1 shot though). So what sorts of recipes exist for them?

NONE
Not in Alliant, Hodgdon, Lyman's 5th, the 24 hr database. Nowhere, can I find any recipe for 16 Federal papers. I do have some older Lyman versions but if there is anything in them for Federal papers, the powder and wad is probably not extant.

I must be blind or something. Gotta be something out there.
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3drahthaars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2015
Posts: 127

I just crossed this thread...

My 16s are all German and tightly choked.

I have shot several combinations of shot and powder and gotten decent patterns with SG 16 and fiber wads (both currently available at BPI). And, I've used Win 572 and Unique mostly.

And, I've loaded and patterned the BPI XSpreader to open up patterns with decent results.

I think that almost all of my reloads would work well for pheasant, assuming the gun is choked similarly to mine... with the spreader taking you down to Modified.

572 is also currently available at Midway USA. Unique is also nice, but it isn't easy to get now.

You may want to give them a try.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Brent,

Whatever data is out there for the Federal paper hulls, is few and far between. Those hulls haven't been available probably since the 1970's. I have some of those hulls myself and I haven't gotten the urge to reload them yet.

And you are correct, to load the 16 takes some work and a bit of searching, but once you get into reloading the 16 things go fairly well. However since the 16 is only about 3% of the market.......it will continue to be the most difficult gauge/bore to find data and components for.

It is best to find the load you want to use and then find components, not the other way around.

If this were me, I would look for Remington plastic hulls, Claybuster CB0100-16 1 oz. Claybuster wads and some Winchester 572 powder to start. There is data for those components right on the Hodgdon website. I have used those loads last summer for sporting clays and they were very nice to load and shoot.

If you want 1 1/8 oz. loads, Hodgdon also has good loads using Federal, Winchester or Cheddite hulls, W572 powder and Gualandi SG16 wads.

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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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brent
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Iowa

Last night, he loaded his first shells. We used some Winchester plastic (not WinAA) hulls, the SG16 wads 23 grs of Longshot, 1 1/8 oz of #5, and a roll crimp. These are not going to be his do-all-to-end-all load, but it was the best, safest load we could put together with what I had on hand. Given that he got the gun only last week and hunting season opens on Saturday, we didn't have time to mail order components. But we talked about looking for a single good load for hunting and another for clays and keeping it simple for starters. I have him my extra copy of Lyman #5 to take home and paw through.

It was fun to show him how to load using only hand tools, dippers, beam balance, and a few jigs. We will do some 12 gauge loading on my progressive press later, but at least he is learning the basics in a very hand-on way.

Thanks for the help.

PS. looked more closely at the paper hulls. They are Winchesters actually. I wonder how old those are? Not really enough to worry about, but nice shells.
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