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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

I wanted to check Winchester 572 in two different loads I had chosen to use, for performance in cold weather. Eye opening and disappointing to say the least.

Weather 16 degrees, sunny, SE wind @ 2 MPH, RH 87%

Shotgun used - Rem 1100 16 gauge, 28" barrel, 0.000" choke

Pro-Chrono - Start screen 2' from muzzle.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 48 hours @ 70 degrees F.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 48 hours @ -4 degrees F.

Chrono and shotgun were brought inside after each 5 round test, while data was being recorded.

Reference loads were shot at the end of the test, to be sure the chronograph was not affected by the cold temps.....it was not. Reference loads were also soaked at 70 degrees F. All loads were shot within 3 minutes from the time I took them from the house or the freezer. Warming rounds were shot before each 5 shot string.

Reference loads assessment for average velocity - 1159 FPS
Reference loads as tested on 1/2/2023 - 1152 FPS

All powder and shot drops were weighed. All hulls were once fired. All rounds were loaded on a MEC Sizemaster.

Load #1
Remington 2 piece plastic hull (RGL)
Winchester 209 Primer
20.5 Grains Winchester 572
Claybuster CB0100-16 Wad
1 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .060"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1,228 FPS
Hi - 1,234 FPS
Lo - 1,223 FPS
ES - 11 FPS
SD - 5 FPS

0 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 847 FPS
Hi - 1,146 FPS
Lo - 573 FPS
ES - 573 FPS
SD - 209

_____________________________________________________

Load #2
Federal 16 ga. hull w/paper basewad
CCI209M Primer
22.0 Grains Winchester 572
Gualandi BRG 16/21 (SG16)
1 1/8 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp Depth: .065"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1,224 FPS
Hi - 1,243 FPS
Lo - 1,203 FPS
ES - 40 FPS
SD - 17 FPS

0 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1041 FPS
Hi - 1,165 FPS
Lo - 871 FPS
ES - 294 FPS
SD - 133

Not only did the cold soaked loads fail terribly, but the 70 degree loads performed below my previous test when the weather was 74 degrees. It isn't the cold because the reference loads were right on the money and some 12 gauge loads I tested just before the 16 gauge loads performed as they always have. Notice that the only things in common with these two loads are the lead shot and the Winchester 572. Hull, wad, primer are completely different. I did test two different lots of Winchester primers in the RGL hull, the results pretty much mirrored each other. I am going to try Federal 209A primers tomorrow or Wednesday and see what happens.

There are no typos....and yes the cold soaked loads sounded like s***, with no recoil, ridiculous.

I did send Hodgdon an email, I am not expecting much...

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 151 Location: SE Ks

Makes me wonder about the 1 1/4 oz 12 ga I loaded.

Joined: 21 Jan 2019 Posts: 48 Location: Indiana

Thanks for the heads up, Mark.

I just loaded four boxes that (I thought) I could use for next season.

You'd think the pre-eminent powder company in the USA would do some checks before they post it as a viable load.

BD

This is probably a stretch, but would the fact that you’re using a gas gun impact the speed with a slower powder in colder temps?

Mark , that is astounding BAD ballistics . I know one of our guys was getting that sorta sound with 12ga target loads , same powder - too slow . You'd think your loads would fall more into that powders niche ! I'm OK with Ball Powders in good weather , but don't trust them so much into winter . Just got 4# of 700X for this yrs winter leagues - my Nitro was just starting to act up with the same loads that have worked all fall .( In my SX1 of course).... Citori - don't think Marks 1100 has anything to do with the shell performance , but I'm sure he's had some really funny gun performance !!

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

My 1100 has never bothered performance of cold soaked loads in the past.

Believe it or not, these loads were so bad that you could hear it, sounded like shells with half a powder charge, but the gun never failed to eject the shell.

Well, I have 8# of 572 that I guess will be for fair weather loads only Rolling Eyes

I’m starting to wonder about my Longshot loads. I may have to experiment with some 700x & American Select loads for winter skeet & waterfowl…though recent temps do not pose a shooting problem, only a duck population problem.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

I normally wouldn't post 12 gauge data, but this is a follow up to the 16 gauge test I did. I only post it because Citori16 mentioned 700-X and you will like how it performed. this test was done the same day as the 16 ga. tests.

I wanted to check some target loads for performance in cold weather using a different primer. The Federal Gold Medal loads are directly off the Hodgdon website using 18.5 grains of 700X with no other changes or substitutions. The Federal paper load is out of the Lyman 5th, with a 1 grain reduction in powder. I didn't compare primers in the Federal Papers, just wanted to know what the RIO would do when it's cold, because I never tried them before in this load and never when it's been winter.

Weather 16 degrees, sunny, SE wind @ 2 MPH, RH 87%

Shotgun used - Benelli SS, 30" barrel, 0.000" choke

Pro-Chrono - Start screen 2' from muzzle.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 48 hours @ 70 degrees F.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 48 hours @ -4 degrees F.

Chrono and shotgun were brought inside after each 5 round test, while data was being recorded.

Reference loads were shot at the end of the test, to be sure the chronograph was not affected by the cold temps.....it was not. I used the same 16 ga. loads as reference.

All powder and shot drops were weighed. All hulls were once fired. All rounds were loaded on a MEC Sizemaster.

Load #1
Federal Gold Medal 12 ga. Paper hull
RIO G-1000
18.5 grains 700-X
Claybuster CB2100-12 Wad
1 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .065"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1224 FPS
Hi - 1235 FPS
Lo - 1210 FPS
ES - 25 FPS
SD - 10 FPS

-4 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1175 FPS
Hi - 1197 FPS
Lo - 1151 FPS
ES - 46 FPS
SD - 18

Percent difference 4.1% average velocity difference between 70 and -4 degree rounds.

_

Load #2
Federal Gold Medal 12 ga, Plastic Hull
Federal 209A
18.5 grains 700-X
Claybuster CB2100-12 Wad
1 1/8 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .065"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1283 FPS
Hi - 1288 FPS
Lo - 1276 FPS
ES - 12 FPS
SD - 4 FPS

-4 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1254 FPS
Hi - 1272 FPS
Lo - 1235 FPS
ES - 37 FPS
SD - 15 FPS

Percent difference 2.2% average velocity difference between 70 and -4 degree rounds.

___

Load #3
Federal Gold Medal 12 ga, Plastic Hull
RIO G-1000
18.5 grains 700-X
Claybuster CB2100-12 Wad
1 1/8 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .065"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1276 FPS
Hi - 1291 FPS
Lo - 1266 FPS
ES - 25 FPS
SD - 9 FPS

-4 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1229 FPS
Hi - 1261 FPS
Lo - 1213 FPS
ES - 48 FPS
SD - 19 FPS

Percent difference 3.7% average velocity difference between 70 and -4 degree rounds.

Just posting the results. not looking for any solutions. The loads using either primer are fine, but the Fed 209A is a bit better in this application.

I am definitely not saying that any primer/powder/wad or whatever is better than any other. Just posting results of a test that I did my best to keep as clean as possible without having a temperature controlled lab.

FYI, load #2 was tested using the same shotgun/choke and chronograph on 7/19/2014:

Average - 1271 FPS
Hi - 1287 FPS
Lo - 1257 FPS
ES - 30 FPS
SD - 12 FPS

on 6/10/2022:

Average - 1265 FPS
Hi - 1272 FPS
Lo - 1256FPS
ES - 16 FPS
SD - 6 FPS

All three using different lots of 700-X and all were within 18 FPS. I have been using 700-X since 1974.

I have been using Load #2 since Federal released the first batch of Federal 209A's. It's one of those powders that can handle cold temps and lower chamber pressures with some component combinations and still remain consistent, even at low temps.

Hodgdon's chamber pressure for load #2 using 18.0 grain is 7,900 PSI. Not what I normally want to see but it works well.

Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Alabama

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

I have used Longshot in 16 ga. 1 1/4 oz. loads and had no issues in the cold weather.....guessing 20's but I have never actually cold soaked any and checked them like I did these.

Winchester 571 and 540/HS6 were/are never a problem.

The loads I have done this with in the past were 700-X, 800-X, SR7625, Blue Dot & Steel. Never had the results even close to the 572 loads above. Usually a 10% loss in velocity and a primer change to a hotter primer has always solved the problem.

I am trying the loads above with Federal 209A's tomorrow they are sitting in the freezer as I type this.

BTW no response from Hodgdon yet on my email. Not that I expect one, but you never know.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

I tried some Federal 209A primers instead of the CCI209M's with the W572. Things went better, but not better enough. Load #2 was shot just for info. I have no intention of using it. The drops were not weighed, loaded on a Sizemaster. I did not bother with the 1 1/8 oz. load and probably won't.

Weather 8 degrees, sunny, N wind @ 8 MPH, RH 87%

Shotgun used - Rem 1100 16 gauge, 28" barrel, 0.000" choke

Pro-Chrono - Start screen 2' from muzzle.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 24 hours @ 70 degrees F.

5 rounds of each load soaked for 24 hours @ -4 degrees F.

Chrono and shotgun were brought inside after each 5 round test, while data was being recorded.

Reference loads were shot at the end of the test, to be sure the chronograph was not affected by the cold temps.....it was not. Reference loads were also soaked at 70 degrees F. All loads were shot within 3 minutes from the time I took them from the house or the freezer. Warming rounds were shot before each 5 shot string.

Reference loads assessment for average velocity - 1159 FPS
Reference loads as tested on 1/4/2023 - 1173 FPS

All powder and shot drops were weighed. All hulls were once fired. All rounds were loaded on a MEC Sizemaster.

Load #1
Remington 2 piece plastic hull (RGL)
Federal 209A Primer
20.0 Grains Winchester 572
Claybuster CB0100-16 Wad
1 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .060"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1,260 FPS
Hi - 1,269 FPS
Lo - 1,252 FPS
ES - 17 FPS
SD - 6 FPS

0 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1,166 FPS
Hi - 1,215 FPS
Lo - 1,097 FPS
ES - 118 FPS
SD - 43

9.3% loss
_____________________________________________________

Load #2
Remington 2 piece plastic hull (RGL)
CCI209 Primer
21.0 Grains 800-X
Remington SP-16 Wad
1 1/8 oz. #6 magnum shot
Crimp depth: .060"

70 Degree rounds:

Average - 1,161 FPS
Hi - 1,186FPS
Lo - 1,144 FPS
ES - 42 FPS
SD - 18 FPS

0 Degree cold soaked rounds:

Average - 1,056 FPS
Hi - 1,071 FPS
Lo - 1,031 FPS
ES - 40 FPS
SD - 21

9% loss

Thanks for this Mark. Based on your results, I’ll be working on some 700x loads for cold weather practice, & the 572 jug will be for warmer temps.

Great info.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

It's tough to beat the original Dupont powders. 700-X, PB, SR7625, 800-X, and SR4756. Temperature just isn't an issue with any of them.

I do understand the the SR series and PB were too expensive to keep making but damn they were good stuff.

I've been using 800-X for years with no problems. Look at where Wyochukar hunts and he kills a lot of his birds with 800-X.

Just an old guy getting grumpy that some good powders are gone. Hodgdon sure knows how to eff stuff up.

And no Hodgdon still hasn't responded to my email.

Precision Reloading did respond, saying that they have only tested some customer loads using W572, but nothing of their own.

Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Posts: 318 Location: Central, ND

Wait a minute Mark. Are you trying to tell me that this stuff I bought last winter at the Bismarck gun show for $20 a pound is good?

Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Posts: 523 Location: Texas

Rub it in buddy! Some of those guys in ND have a sick sense of humor.