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Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Hi folks,

I'm curious what people are using for powder to load 5/8 oz. lead loads and if anyone has used 700-X specifically. Another member here shared an outstanding recipe using E3 and I was so happy with it that I quit using Promo for my 5/8 oz. loads. The recipe only requires 13 grains of the stuff and I never experienced any "weak" loads even with mild primers and low pressures (published at 6180 psi with a velocity of 1275 fps). I can't say the same of Promo. I needed Fed 209A's, CCI 209M's or more powder to alleviate the fluctuations with Promo. E3 seemed to burn a lot cleaner and consistently with this very mild loading.

Well, like a dummy I didn't buy more E3. Nobody here appears to use it. It just sits on the shelves unsold...until last week. Go figure. I fell in love with the 5/8 oz. loads for blue and ruffed grouse. It's that time of year when I maintain sanity by reloading next year's ammo and I only have a 1/2 lb. of E3 at best. I do have plenty of 700-X, Red Dot, and Promo though...

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17877&highlight=

Green dot 24-26 grains - high velocity.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Cool, but not what I'm interested in. I don't want to burn that much powder to get the job done when I don't need to. I have Green Dot, but replacing it these days is iffy. I also won't go that far away from the velocities I normally shoot; I don't need to screw with the lead angles I'm accustomed to.

I know I can accomplish the task with small charges of faster powder. I remember some discussion a few year ago, with data, but the search feature didn't bring anything up this time.

I like the mild report and lack of recoil with the E3 load, especially when the grouse fall so hard. I also like the fact that at 13 gr. I can load a lot of these with a pound. My Promo load used 16 gr. I may have to go back to it if nothing else.

Have never used E3 in a 16 but it is all I have used for many years in my 12ga target loads. Cleanest powder I have ever used and my semi autos go far longer before needing to be cleaned. Am down to my last pound and can't find any, anywhere. Sad

Ramshot competition and titewad both seem to be available online. You’d probably have to develop your load though.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

I'll have to dig out my Promo & RD light loads(if you've lost yours) since like you shelved them once I found the E3 5/8 load to work so well.

In my copy of the Spared Sheets organized by hull make, on the Ched tab/page, line #29 there is a 3/4oz 700x load shared by a member here (ASSUMING it was tested) with reasonable numbers. If I were in your shoes it would be my reference to lower the powder a bit, swap the DR for an SG16 and top with 5/8oz and more than likely be safe since I can't image the pressure increasing catastrophically due to being relatively low pressure originally, even if it did go up can't imagine how it would go over 11.5k by changing those components to lighter side.

On the current burn rate chart TW is right next to E3, on that same SS tab/page there are a couple 5/8 TW loads just above that 3/4 700 one. Albeit BP screamers, turning down the heat a bit might get you where you're looking if TW is available in your local. But if I remember correctly TW was squirrely to work with.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2169 Location: Florida

Tested by Lon in 2013

Cheddite hull 2 1/2"
Cheddite primer
15 grains 700X
DR16 wad
3/4 oz of 9s

With a 10-shot string Precision Reloading testing equipment showed an average velocity of 1,313 FPS, Standard Deviation (SD) of 5 and an Extreme Variation (EV) of 18. The pressure average was 9,089 PSI, SD of 311 PSI and EV of 880 PSI.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2169 Location: Florida

Extralite may be another option in you can get it.

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14436&highlight=extralite

I like it because I can keep the velocity down and still maintain good pressures

WYO , try about the same load with 700X .... Be patient , E3 has come up every so often . Will try to let you know when it shows up .

Joined: 01 Mar 2017 Posts: 52

WyoChukar,
would you be kind enough to point me to the post with this data or could you share it here.
Thank you.

harkom

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

The E3 load I'm using:

2 1/2" Cheddite hull
5/8 oz. lead
SG16 wad (short)
13 gr. E3
Cheddite 209
1275 fps
6180 psi

The data calls for a 2 9/16" hull, but the load fits better with a 2 1/2". I find that if I substitute a 2 1/2" Rem RGL hull, I can load this without using any filler. The RGL hull will raise pressure some, but starting at 6,180 psi I'm not remotely worried about it in any of the guns I use.

Here is another load I will experiment with:

Rem RGL hull
5/8 oz. lead
R16 wad
13 gr. Clays
Fed 209A
1280 fps
9650 psi

The RGL hulls tend to vary in length from 2 9/16" to 2 5/8". I cut them down to 2 1/2" these days and like them very much. Mike Campbell always spoke well of doing this and I can see why. I don't expect any noteworthy change in pressure cutting these hulls down to 2 1/2", especially since a pressure gun actually takes the pressure reading at the 1 1/2" mark over/in the chamber. Cutting RGL hulls to a uniform length will if anything, yield more consistent ballistics due to eliminating variations in hull length/ internal capacity.

The two rogue factors with the above load that uses Clays are the discontinued R16 wad and the nearly impossible to obtain at the moment Fed 209A. I intend to substitute the SG16 wad and try the Ched 209 primer. Why? I have a lot of Ched 209's and only a few hundred Fed 209A's. I will also try the CCI 209M since I have a pretty good supply of those as well. The SG16 short is a wad that is available. I have DR16's but see no reason to develop a load for a wad we may or may not ever see again. At some point I will send off test loads to Precision for pressure testing and publish the results...if winter ever ends up this way.

I have more data for loads using 20-26 gr. of various powders, but why go that route when I can get the job done with 13-15 gr.? For example. I have two trucks that will tow my camper and both do about the same job of it in terms of handling and pulling speed on the highways and mountain passes. One gets the job done at 12-13 mpg and the other at 8-10 mpg. I quit driving the second one. I feel the same way about these featherweight 16 ga. loadings.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

It looks like Clays is going to be the powder I focus on considering the similarities in load data for 5/8 oz. lead, plus the fact that a friend offered me an irresistible trade deal on 6 lbs. of it today, out of the blue no less. Serendipity I suppose.

Joined: 01 Mar 2017 Posts: 52

Thank you for the load data. Much appreciated.
harkom

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2169 Location: Florida

WyoChukar , just curious , so why 5/8oz ? There seems to be alot more load data for 3/4oz

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Why 5/8 oz.? This can be divided into two categories: forest birds and economics.

When I hunt blue and ruffed grouse my average shot is 12-15 yards, so 5/8 oz. goes in the skeet choke right barrel backed up by a 3/4 oz. or 7/8 oz. load in the modified choke barrel for when I miss the first shot or when a bird jumps further out in a clearing. It's plenty of load to do the job out to 20 yards and helps ensure I have something left to eat when my bird hits the ground. 5/8 oz is also adequate for doves over a waterhole when the bird numbers are high. In Arizona I've seen it so good that a hunter can choose their shots, like say only overheads at 20 yards or less.

Now for the economic side. Powder prices are horrible now and I want to make the powder for my practice ammo last as long as possible. With a load that uses 13 gr. of powder I get 538 loads from 1 lb. of powder. Shot prices are beyond horrible. I get 640 shells out of a bag of lead shot with 5/8 oz. I get 533 shells out of a bag of shot with 3/4 oz. That's slightly better than 4 extra boxes of target loads for my $65 bag of shot compared to a 3/4 oz. load, and they work great. Recoil is even less, and that's a big plus when someone's kid wants to learn to shoot too.