16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

This is a very difficult note to post, but it’s time to reflect on our future with the 16 ga. Although all of us enjoy the 16 ga, some of us have to think ahead. My own sons, to my great joy and satisfaction, have followed me to the range and into the field for sport and enjoyment. But do I share my deep interest in 16 ga guns with them?

My answer is firmly negative. In fact I actively discourage it.

Why? Because the 16 ga is, sadly, a dead end. And our abandonment by the shooting industry has only compounded the problem. Our sons’ time away from work and family is brief and precious. Do I want them to spend their leisure hours in perpetual search for excessively costly ammo, or at the reloading bench and pattern board sorting through makeshift recipes with continually changing supplies and components, as we do now? Absolutely not. Quite honestly, it would be an unfair burden to them.

What about those lovely 16ga double guns and repeaters in the safe downstairs? Pass them on to the boys? Not likely. I hope sell them properly in due time and use the proceeds to further their hunting careers in a more fruitful manner. I don’t want to see those guns ending up in the bargain barrel at the LGS, where I have found some of my own 16 ga guns.

One option is to reserve a couple of the very best 16 ga guns along with a dozen flats of factory ammo to pass on. But would that really be the best use of those resources?

Yes its hard to admit resignation, given all the wonderful pleasure gained from our 16 ga activities, but it will soon be time to turn the page, and start a new chapter. Will I abandon the 16ga? Not at all. But my family’s 16 ga story will probably end with me, and I daresay, likely the same for the rest of us.

However until that moment arrived, it’s hold the course and d*** the torpedoes and press on with our 16 ga shooting!

V/R

B.

Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Posts: 186 Location: ont canada

The future is dark only if you want it to be. Myself I strive to make the best out of life and strive to be eternally optimistic . My sixteens are not going anywhere soon other than the range or woods. But I can understand your position.

I have wondered the same thing, but came up with a slightly different conclusion. When I started poking around at what gauge my son would like for a Christmas present it ended up being a 16. He had bought a Retay 12 and was loving shooting ducks with it. We started talking about upland guns and the practicalities of the different gauges. He had shot my Citori a good bit at the hand trap range of my club at the time, and actually really liked it. I mentioned to him that a 20 gauge Citori would be my choice for him, due to the availability of ammo and the extra steps Browning takes for it vs the 16. He was more enthused about the 16. As a family, we are different like that...typically one off, slightly rebellious, always looking for that challenge. Probably like most folks on here.

I made the choice of a 20 gauge for my daughter taking care to balance gun weight with recoil. For her, it's mostly about the enjoyment of shooting clays with Dad, when her commitments allow her. It is not yet a passion for her, may never be. But recently I talked with her about the advantages of looking through the barrels to ensure there were no obstructions, and while my thoughts are of an O/U in 20 gauge, I think it would be best if she tried my Citori first, and maybe there could be a spark in that. I'm not worried either way.

I will always have a 12 gauge 3.5" in the safe for those heavy waterfowl days. But as long as I can come up with loads for the 16 that overlap the 28 to 12 gauge loads, I will continue to buy the components. It's not like the 14 gauge which really was too small a difference from the 12, and it's not exactly like a 3" 20 gauge either. The .410 still offers the challenge to crack shots, why would the 16 not offer a different but same level challenge? My son talks about getting into reloading, and considering the prices for new 16 gauge ammo right now it is a good bet he will start there. I guess for me to paraphrase "Field of Dreams", "Use it and they will supply". There still seems to be a better market for the 16 in Europe, we still see 16s being made (elsewhere) & sold in the US, and I don't think the 16 will go down without a fight. If I'm wrong, then I'll reload & shoot until I'm out of ammo. I'm guessing my body will give out before that happens, and I'm relatively young.

I can say this for sure: Every time I shoot well in a skeet match and people notice the gun, I get some interested questions.

Brewster11,
I disagree the 16 gauge will always be the Grouse & Woodcock hunters gun of choice.
Our family has used 16 gauge guns for many generations now, and I see no reason our future generations will not enjoy the 16 gauge guns as most of my ancestors did.

We do not look at how many new sales have been made, we take pride in our 100 year old guns and keep using them every year to bird hunt with. I was going to purchase a new 16 gauge Bristol Silver gun, then I found another L.C. Smith 16 gauge gun at a reasonable price, so I purchased it instead. Sense many of the old time Grouse hunters have passed away, we seem to be able to purchase their good guns from time to time.

No the 16 gauge good double guns is far from extinct, in fact the cost of a great 16 gauge L.C. Smith #5 gun, has gone up again. Just try to find one to purchase for your collection. The future of good 16 gauge guns is not dark at all.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

16 Gauge L.C. Smit #5 Gun, the stuff dreams are made of!

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 1114

If you enjoy your 16 ga guns, they have served their purpose. I have a nice assortment of 16 ga guns, mainly SXS's, that I enjoy and hunt with almost exclusively. We have no children and I purchased the guns for my enjoyment and don't really care what happens to them when I'm gone. It would be nice if someone got the guns who enjoyed them as much as I do, but they could just as easily end up in a gangbanger's possession with the barrels cut off to an illegal length and the stock cut off behind the POW grip. I have no control over that and refuse to agonize over things I can't control. The important thing to me if my guns have served their purpose of giving me fond memories and hours of pleasure afield with them and my bird dogs.

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

A svelte 16ga sxs, frost,paper hulls behind pointing dogs with a covey rise. I pity the guy that hasn’t experienced such a thing.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 691

Browning has a couple levels of Hunter Grade Citoris in 16ga now.

There is the Savage/Stevens 555 in 16 ga, 3 different versions on their website.

This on gundog.com lists current 16ga guns. Are they high end, no. Do they keep the 16 going, absolutely

https://www.gundogmag.com/editorial/top-16gauge-shotguns/468879

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Gentlemen,

To elaborate, I have no objection to 16 ga guns themselves, as I own and enjoy a sizable clutch of them myself.

No, the issue is not the 16 ga gun. The problem is 16 ga ammunition, or lack thereof, as it is for the 14 ga, the 24 ga, and the 32 ga. The handwriting is on the wall.

The available 16ga retail ammo stock is utterly inadequate. The choices are meager and for the most part exorbitantly costly, especially the various field loads and non toxic shells.

My sons spend a good part of the off season at the range, and I treasure the hours spent together there with them. I am of the opinion that range practice should be conducted with the same gun used in the field. Unfortunately for the typical millennial, extensive range practice is simply unaffordable with 16ga factory ammunition.

And as much as I am involved with it, I can’t recommend 16ga reloading to anyone, much less a new shooter. It's become a rabbit hole that shows no meaningful sign of relief.

Did I adopt the 16ga because it was practical or economical? No, nor I regret it. But given the ammo problems, I don’t see how I could in good conscience recommend 16 ga to a prospective shooter, or even an experienced next generation hunter.

V/R
B.

Joined: 08 Mar 2022 Posts: 91

I understand your concern, but i see it a bit different. My upland experiences began in '90, as I had recently purchased a 16SxS so it was the gun I started upland with. I also read THEN all the numerous articles in Outdoor Life, Sports Afield etc etc that the 16 was eventually going to die out. I don't think its going to happen. AS stated previously, you start out out with one gun, find it works for you, why switch? I had always been fascinated by the Browning stories, and had always wanted to own a Sweet. That became a reality last year. When i take it afield, its always noticed & I get more inquiries about it than whatever else is being used. Last year was a bad year to find ammo. I found Ammo Seek and 16 ga offerings were limited to one page. Go there now; its 5 pages long. Last winter I paid $15.84 at Wallys for a box of WWSupers. It was on recently at AS for 10 something. At that price reloading for some may not be even worth it. There's also a nice bunch of new 16 SxSs being offered today. I don't think they would wasting their time ($$$$) making these things if they thought they couldn't sell them.
I also think back to my first big bore in '72. I always wanted an '06. Remember all those kids who carried an M1 ( I have TWO of them) . Buddies at the time tried to sway me. Outdated, inefficient, there's better ballistic stuff out there yada yada yada.
Oh, the 7mms can do this, a whole new tribe of 6mms. I don't think the deer ever knew the difference of what hit him. I always had the last laugh at the range though. I was shooting new '06 for $5.29 /box then and could shoot all i wanted. ( I STILL have a few of them so marked although i load my own now) My buddies shot to sight in only 'cause their ammo was in the twenties.
Over the last year i've also seen more articles directed at the positives of owning/shooting a 16. I heard about it going obsolete in the '60s and i think its still bs. As long as WE continue to use one how can it be ?

Brewster11,

It was difficult for me to understand the motivation and logic of your posts here, especially considering the venue in which you placed them, but now I think I've got it. Can you simply tell us what you hope to accomplish by promoting your hopeless feelings about the 16 gauge to the audience you selected? i.e. What do you want to happen as a result of your posts? How will your posts help make that happen?

Enlighten us.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

I just can't see all the doom and gloom. No it's not likely the 16 ga. will return to its former glory any time soon, but I am seeing more new gun offerings in 16 ga. than I have since I started hunting in the late 80's. I also see a wider variety of ammunition offerings, especially in the last five years. The industry has actually been expanding the 16 ga. lineup.

The supply chain issues in this post Covid time period have put the hurt on some of the ammunition availability as manufacturers focus first on their number one selling items, but the situation isn't unique to ammo. During this same time period manufacturers have dropped a lot of items from their catalogs as they struggled to catch up with orders. Last year one store manager told me that Danner went from 14 models of boots to only 3. My favorite boots from North face disappeared for a couple years, but are now back on the market along with a new version for warm weather. We'll come out of this fine and the 16, while unlikely to become everyone's baby, will soldier on.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

I completely disagree. I started shooting the 16 in 1987 and this is what I have found since then........

Browning, Upland Gun Co., B. Rizzini, F.A.I.R., CSMC and others currently make new 16 gauge shotguns. Plus there are many good used 16 gauge shotguns out there.

Remington, Winchester, Federal, Kent, B & P, Fiocchi, RIO and others currently make ammunition for the 16 gauge.

In 1987 there were two plastic wads the Remington SP16 and the Winchester WAA16 readily available in the US. There are now many lead wads available, the SP16, SG16S, SG16 and the Z2/M16. two plastic gas seals, the CB0100-16, CB0078-16 and if DownRange will get off its butt, the DR16. There are also 3 different steel shot wads. Card, fiber, felt wads are made as well as a dispersor wad. All, with the exception of the DR16, are available right now as I am posting this.

The toughest part of our job as reloaders is finding powder and to a greater extent primers, but this is a problem for anyone that is reloading for any shotgun gauge.

So where's the problem? There is no bleak outlook for the 16 gauge and no reason not to hand down this wonderful gauge to our kids.......I already have and started my son off with a Browning A-5 Sweet 16, many years ago.

Joined: 28 Oct 2015 Posts: 166 Location: SWMO

I started hunting as a pre-teen and reading all the gun magazines dad subscribed to or bought at the grocery store in the early 1990's. Anything you read back then was the 16 is on its last leg and won't be around much longer.

Now it is 30 years later, there are more guns being offered in 16 now than then. I have 4 Walmarts I occasionally go into. Every one of them typically has some 16 gauge shells on the shelf for clays/dove/quail shooting. Step up to a Scheels/Cabelas/BassPro/many online retailers and you can get a shell for whatever game you're hunting. Its already pointed out that the reloading world is way better today than it was 30 years ago.

My 12 year old boy isn't near as 'gun loony' as I am, but I'm trying to do enough exposure to get keep him interested (my 870 youth 20 from when I was a kid is his gun now). I see no reason to steer him away from a 16 if he wants.

Myself, I only want 1 more, the next one.

Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Posts: 43 Location: Alabama

I'm confident enough that I have a 16ga Zeus on order from Upland Gun Company.

Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 483 Location: South Eastern PA

I pretty much use my 16's for upland game only.

I leave target shooting to the 20's and 12's.

That being said, I bought enough 16-gauge ammo to last a lifetime of grouse and woodcock hunting when Cabela's sold out all the Herter's stock before Covid hit.

For me, it's the handling quality of the gun that is paramount. I've had clunky 16's that I've sent on down the road and walked away from others that I could have bought but just did not do it for me.