16ga.com ~ View topic

Boy ... I couldn't have more polar opposite feelings. It's easier to find 16 gauge ammo right now than .410 ammo and nobody is singing the .410 blues that I know of.

If you broaden your ammo search online there are plenty of 16 options out there. The only significant gap I see with 16 gauge ammo is the lack of nontoxic offerings in small shot for doves or quail where that is required, but you can even solve that challenge somewhat with BOSS #7s. Even RSTs have come back and vintage 16 gauge ammo in 2 1/2" shell length is available once again. I suppose only 16 gauge turkey loads are missing in TSS configurations, but you can remedy this with waterfowl-type loads.

There are more new, scaled frame 16 gauge guns being offered than at any point in recent history -- Browning, B. Rizzini, CZ, FAIR, Upland Gun Company, Stevens/Savage, Fausti, Franchi, TriStar, etc. etc. Is a 16 gauge the easiest or most affordable shotgun option out there? Of course not, but it may be the most fun and the singular best option for upland bird hunting. I only see its market share growing over time. It may always be a niche product but the niche is definitely growing.

My two boys will inherit my collection of 16 gauge guns but I suspect I will pick out one 16 gauge for each of them that suits them best. My youngest took a fat American wigeon with a 16 gauge Citori Gran Lightning this past duck season. He shoots that one well. It may be his before long.

Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Posts: 548 Location: Ohio

All my grandkids will have a 16 gauge Ithaca 37 eventually. Four out the door so far and more lurking in the safe as they come of age. I do have a grand daughter who fell in love with a .410 pump of mine so she did break the mold a bit. I actually use the 16 gauge for all my hunting except dedicated goose hunts,then the 12 comes out. I reload cause that's half the fun of it. Right now Federals are $14.99 and Winchesters are 15.99 at the local Walmarts. Not that far off pre Covid prices.

Doom and Gloom for the 16 is the last thing one would expect to see from folks in the 16 Gauge Society, and we're seeing the repudiation of such thinking. The celebration of the 16 as the niche specialty it is, is the very reason for these forums. The OP appears to be a 16 gauge enthusiast. We can only imagine his objective. It's a bit of a puzzle.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

Yes, puzzling, I can only add to the positive and as far a dying breed, just don't see it, Godson took his collage graduation gifted 16ga 1100 out on a Quail put-n-take hunt yesterday and whenever ago I get a pic of the steal/deal he got on a sweet 16ga CZ O/U...not worried here. BTW; thanks again to whomever posted those Win field loads available for ~$100, made the perfect baby shower gift for him last week.

I don't pigeon hole the 16 into a niche, just the opposite, with BB bismuth and certainly tungsten, which I'm in no hurry to try, I can load a Goose load nearly mimicking terminal ballistics of my favorite 10ga Goose load and then load all the way down to equivalent .410 5/8oz powder puffs and everywhere in between. Whats not to love....

Sharing a thought about another thread concerned with the system pricing the shooting sports into extinction, don't see it. When I was a 20 something making $5-7/hr a box of rabbit/squirrel loads were ~$3-5/box could reload for ~1/2 that. Today's 20 somethings are making $15-20/hr and lookie there, a box of field loads are ~$10-15/box, the ingenuitive ones should be able to put a box together for ~$8-10.

Maybe that's what the OP needed, maybe feeling a little down and needed some reassurance of a passion.

Gentlemen,

A few years back when RST went into business I quit reloading 2 1/2" 16 gauge shells, because RST had high quality 16 gauge shells in stock and readly available. I still purchase RST 16 gauge shells for my Classic American & Best German double guns from RST and a few others. For a short time components were unavailable for making my 2 1/2" shells, that passed also. RST has been supplying 16 gauge shells for me to hunt and train dogs with for many years now. I do admit I use my 2 3/4" shells in different guns to shoot clays with, and use my 16 gauge 2 1/2" shells for hunting. COVID put a hurt on a lot of businesses, we are now starting to get back to normal.

In reality there are more 16 gauge shells available right now than ever before. You may have to order them off the Net & have them delivered, instead of shopping at a brick and mortar store.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 756 Location: Mn.

Brewster, Western Wa. State huh? In the late 70's and early 80's in the Puget Sound region you couldn't find 16 ga. ammo anywhere. That was pretty much across the Country, times were lean for the 16 back then. We are rolling in 16 ga. shells today in comparison. And guns.

No, the issue is not the 16 ga gun. The problem is 16 ga ammunition, or lack thereof, as it is for the 14 ga, the 24 ga, and the 32 ga. The handwriting is on the wall.

The available 16ga retail ammo stock is utterly inadequate. The choices are meager and for the most part exorbitantly costly, especially the various field loads and non toxic shells.

Beg to differ. 12 flats of Winchester 16 ga. cost me $106 each all in delivered to my door last week. 12 and 20 cost pretty much the same as that these days.

The boxes behind them with the writing against the wall (speaking of handwriting on the wall Smile

hold ~4,500 new unfired 16 ga. hulls. And another couple thousand in the garage. Along with thousands of once fired Cheddite, Herters and Federal hulls in the garage. Not even sure how many I have anymore. But I plan to never again experience the 16 shortage of the late 70's and early 80's. And I shoot a lot.

My sons spend a good part of the off season at the range, and I treasure the hours spent together there with them. I am of the opinion that range practice should be conducted with the same gun used in the field. Unfortunately for the typical millennial, extensive range practice is simply unaffordable with 16ga factory ammunition.

There was a time that I would eat beanie weenies all week just so that I could shoot 2 rounds of skeet. When my youngest son got interested in shooting ATA trap we would reload and go through 20K rounds a year. Couldn't have done it without reloading back then. And still had to make sacrifices in other areas. If there is a will to shoot they\we will find a way to if the will is strong enough.

And as much as I am involved with it, I can’t recommend 16ga reloading to anyone, much less a new shooter. It's become a rabbit hole that shows no meaningful sign of relief.

Not like this is the first shortage we have been though over the last dozen years. Some people were Boy Scouts

While it will be awhile before the Universal, Clays and International shows up again Green Dot shows up from time to time. I had the new green lid green dot tested and you would be hard pressed to find another powder for 1 oz loads at 1200 up to 1275 fps and decent pressure with such low SD and low pressure extremes. It is better than the Universal, International and Clays for the 16 ga. in my current supply for 1 oz. target loads. Unless you feel the need for some ungawdly speed which is a waste given how fast it drops off.

The empty cubby is from shooting Federal 7.5 this winter until it got too cold and targets started to occasionally dust instead of break so switched to loading 7.5 Heper shot which is the hardest shot available anywhere right now. Reloading has its place at times.

I look at replacement costs for reloading not what I paid for it 10 years ago. And right now I can buy factory 16 ga. for what it would cost me to load them using replacement components.

I also shoot a lot of 12 and haven't loaded any 12 in a long time. Pretty much only shoot a 20 when given a 3-5 bird handicap on 100 birds. I'll take those odds any day of the week. But I shoot a lot of 16 and pretty much all I shot this winter. Target guns for targets and hunting guns for feathers. The right tool for the task at hand. And there are a good number of 16 ga. target guns now

The handwriting on the wall I see is what made me place a custom order for a FAIR Iside. Hopefully in June or before that it will land!

Deep breathe and order some shells or load some up. Either way go meet the boys at the range and throw some lead. I find it usually works for whatever is ailing me Laughing

Cold Iron,
I due grant you this, our 16 gauge shells are more expensive than they should be.
However our 28 gauge shells are even more so, and nobody is writing doom & gloom about the 28 gauge!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.c. Smith Man

Re 16 gauge ammo: In the late 1960s, a number of my hunting companions told me, "You better get rid of them 16 gauges, you ain't gonna be able to get shells for them much longer. I'm 71 now, and have never had trouble getting 16 gauge ammo, as long as I plan ahead. Have shot mostly 16 gauge alll my life.

And I never had to worry about hunting companions wanting to borrow shells from me, after they shot all they came with.

Thanks for the good "lengthy" comments above.

Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 962 Location: Minnesota

Sorry guys.
I shoot five gauges, actually one is a “bore size.” I enjoy them so much that I don’t worry about the future and who will shoot what gauge.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Thank you all for your remarks. I can see I touched a nerve. The feedback ranges from umbrage and How Dare You, to I don’t give a ****, and my favorite, a description of a sawed off 16 ga.

It’s all welcome, what a great website.

Yet I remain unswayed. There’s no doubt in my mind that we 16 ga shooters are far worse off now than we were almost 20 years ago when I was first bitten by the 16 ga bug.

Back then, asking for 16 ga ammo was as normal as saying good morning or ordering a Pepsi. Now it brings sad looks and apologies. It seems that something basic must change or the 16 ga will eventually flatline.

We all know the 16ga is not gifted with a perpetual free ride from NSSA like the 12, 20, 28, and 410 guns. The 16 ga has to fight for its survival.

I don’t think merely continuing to buy 16 ga guns and ammo will be enough. It lacks the appearance of a sufficient business base to interest a cold hearted business financier.

So what could be done?

First and foremost, a 16 ga Shooters Association could generate new interest among users, and create outreach to manufacturers, distributors, and retailers.

Many similar associations have been formed to support niche activities and hobbyist pursuits, with remarkable success stories. 16 ga shooters could do the same.

What else could help the 16 ga cause? Well, in other business areas, manufacturing consortiums and industry committees are formed to stabilize and expand the product base. Why not one for 16 ga arms and ammunition makers? Such a pact would go a long way to maintaining a 16ga industrial base and supply chain.

These are just a couple ideas. Surely others here can come up with more. If you are satisfied with the status quo, that’s fine with me, and thank you for your time and attention. I however am looking ahead at the next generation or two, and I am not content with what I see.

Finally, we owe enormous credit to the founders and maintainers of this 16ga website, whose efforts and dedication are nothing short of heroic. They were able to accomplish something very successful and significant for the 16 ga. Now we need others to pick up the baton and move ahead.

Thank You and All the Best,
B.

If any of you listen to podcasts go check out the most recent one from “Upland Nation”/Scott Linden. Scott had Browning USA’s shotgun chief on. He talks quite a bit how 16 gauge shotgun sales are strong, which prompted Browning to come out with additional 16 gauge finishes for the new A5, including waterfowl versions. Browning is now selling 16 gauge ammo as well. The 16 gauge is a real bright spot for Browning in both semi auto and O/U.

Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Posts: 186 Location: ont canada

Brewster,

I agree 100% with you on what could be done. I think to spur that, a case could be made for local clubs to generate publicity by holding events with a 16 gauge division, if there are enough members interested. My thought is the interest would largely be among newer shooters, though I bet even a few hard core NSSA shooters with a 16 gauge in their safe from their youth would enjoy it. Again, create the demand and the market will supply. Generating interest could be as simple as shooting in a league that allows you to use a 16 gauge. If you shoot well people will inquire, regardless of gauge. That's an opportunity to promote the gauge. It can snowball from there, and then a 16 ga Shooters Association (Society?...hmm) would simply be the normal course of action.

The other part of this is the niche the 16 gauge fulfills as the Queen of the Uplands (though it works rather well for waterfowl for sure). A new sport, or division within a sport that highlights the advantages of a 16 gauge would certainly help things along. I've often thought about using my clubs 1st skeet field which also has a trap house for 5 stand to practice for the randomness of grouse hunting, shooting low gun, and not knowing whether you will get a high house, low house, trap house or even a report pair. To me, that's where the reduced weight of a 16 vs a 12 combined with the supposedly superior ballistics of the 16 over the 3" 20 ga might favor 16 gauge use. Obviously, this is only in my thoughts right now, as our trap & skeet guys tend to stay separate for the most part. A case could probably be easier made for a 16 ga Sporting Clays division (with no carts allowed Laughing

).

My club has a members only summer league, and after everyone has shot their required number of normal rounds, there is a doubles shoot off as a separate category. I'm hoping the reduced weight of my Citori WL will give me an edge over the 12 ga shooters.

Gentlemen,
Not to worry about the future of the 16 gauge gun, in reality it is the favorite gun of most all Grouse & Woodcock hunters. As long as we are able to have good Grouse populations to Grouse hunt, the 16 gauge guns will have a home with the American Sportsman in our Upland shooting life. Although I do shoot my 16 gauge double guns on the Clays course to keep me sharp for Grouse & Woodcock hunting, the Clays course for a 16 gauge gun is just practice for upland gunning, as it always has been.
The problem I see is that the modern 16 gauge guns are to heavy, I was going to purchase a modern 16 gauge Bristol Silver SXS double gun until the men who actually own one advised me the guns are 7.6 lbs in reality. No Grouse hunter wants to walk the mountains with a 16 gauge gun that heavy. If I am going to walk the mountains with a 7.6lb gun it will be with a #5, 12 gauge L.C. Smith double gun. 16 gauge guns should weigh around 6 lbs. The Tristar advertisement says their Bristol Silver 16 gauge gun weighs 6.6 lbs, which I was willing to live with, for the cost of the Box Lock SXS double gun, 7.6 lbs is a deal breaker for me, the gun would never get used, except for shooting Clays.

If the modern manufacturers want to sell a Box Lock 16 gauge gun to us Grouse hunters, the quality must be there, along with the proper gun weight. If Tristar can actually sell me a Box Lock 16 gauge Bristol SXS double gun at the advertised 6.6 lbs, I will purchase one, other wise no sale.

Sometimes the gun manufacturers are their own worst enemy, when building 16 gauge double guns. For an experienced Grouse & Woodcock hunter false advertisement especially of gun weight, usually gets noticed very quickly and adversely effects their gun sales.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. smith Man

Joined: 31 Dec 2022 Posts: 1

Took 6 months to get officially joined and glad to be hear. Interesting thread and my two cents. I've owned several dozen shotguns over the years of many vintages, types and gauges from the 1880's to present. Currently own about a dozen and a half of which seven are 16's. My pride and joys are my 16's. Just sold two not too long ago. They just weren't getting used and went to good homes. The ones left are a Fox Sterlingworth 28" ca 1929 / Citori 525 28" / Remington 870 ca 1952 / Ithaca 37 ca 1968 / Stevens style no name SxS / Belgium Damascus hammer SxS. I did stock up on RST pre covid and others as well and after the well known scarcity the few years as described back to buying more and obviously online. Sold off my 410's and 28 and own a token 20 gauge Maverick field model for fun and a no worries swamp gun. The rest are 12 gauges, SXS"'s, pumps, O/U's and autos's.

Selling off my 16's is not on my radar anytime soon and I turn 65 in a few months. I wish to bust brush, walk pastures, bust clays and occasionally sit in a blind with my 16's and my 12's until I am ready to go to what awaits beyond. I have said many many times that if I get to where I don't know my name or yours, crapping myself and can't stand please do me the service of wrapping me in a fur coat, give me morphine drip, a bottle of 18 plus year old bottle of single malt scotch, put me on an ice floe and let me go.
This thread has given me the inspiration for an addendum to add a 16 gauge Classic Double to lay across my lap.