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Joined: 17 Oct 2019 Posts: 456 Location: New Jersey

Lloyd I would seriously consider having the stock head cleaned free of oil and glassed to reinforce the wood so it will hold up to lots of shooting which will certainly want to do with this gun.

Is the gun with Terry Nicholson in Wittmann?
Please ask him the end-of-chamber wall thickness for my records and thanks.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

'Tis Dr. Drew. He related to me that the end of the chamber is surprizingly now .740 (!), which he believes is the result of someone polishing-out pitting/corrosion there at sometime in it's past. With all the meat in those big, heavy tubes he tells me that it's a non-issue ( as far as safety is concerned). But...I will ask him for you.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Dr. Drew: Per Mr. Nicholson, "Wall thickness at the breech bend of the chambers is approximately .125". Terry says he measures the inside diameter and then the outside diameter at the same point. Outside minus the inside is the number he uses, assuming concentricity of the bore to the outside diameter.

The classic Smith sidelock, circa 1891:

[url=https://imgur.com/6kQbZVw]

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Interesting discoloration, possibly caused by an organic (non-petroleum) lubricant?

Thanks Lloyd. I suspect he means the forward end of the chamber. Most of the 12g Smiths I've measured were about .110"; 16g and 20g about .100"

Whale oil was derived from refining (mostly) blubber, and apparently ranged from honey colored to dark brown. As an organic compound it could certainly darken over time via oxidation.

Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 444 Location: WI

I just watched a very interesting video on the creation of the atomic bomb, and one of the things mentioned was that in the rail gun type bomb, where one piece of fissile material is propelled down a barrel by an explosive charge into another piece of fissile material, the only lubricating oil that would work reliably was whale oil.

I was also advised many years ago that up until the early 1970's the special "Limited slip" oil additive for GM vehicles was whale oil.

I have often seen touted here that the oil recommended by LC Smith for their guns was Singer sewing machine oil, and while that may be true, I have not seen that documented anywhere.

I do have some experience with commercial sewing machines, including Singer, Merrow, Juki, etc. and learned from a supplier I worked with in the garment district of NYC who had been in business since the 1920's (his grandfather started the business) said that the oil sold by Singer and all the other commercial machine makers was nothing more than light viscosity mineral oil.

Whale oil would not have been uncommon in the late 1800's, but was already out of favor with the industry in decline from its peak around 1850.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Forgive me for resurrecting this post, but I just heard yesterday that this old Smith gun was coming back to me. My gunsmith seemed very pleased with it, he says it is almost a twin brother to a Syracuse short 10 that he's owned & used for years as a waterfowler and that it's a fine, relatively unmolested example of it's breed. In our conversation he actually compared it to a pigeon gun because if it's heft (7lbs12 actually), dimensions, chokes, and that big, solid top rib (that most LC Smiths are known for).

After the gun was apart and cleaned (evidently, it's very 1st time in what...132 years?), he found that the original stock was still quite sound (yea!). The rest of the internals were found to be in very good order as well (whale oil be damned!). He then set about repairing the ebony tip on the forend, refinishing the Damascus tubes back to their original Black & White, and he had the checkering re-cut. It should ship out next Monday and be here later in the week. I will have it in time now to be used down at Whittington with the Rocky Mountain Vintagers, which is set for late April. After a fairly mild-winter (at least so-far) Spring is finally coming on here, it seems.

Gentlemen,

RevDoc makes a good point, if the gun has been abusd by over oiling it can be restored, it will take some knowledge, time and money to make it happen however.
If his gun was taken care of properly, it should not be oil soaked, however many were not taken care of properly.

Lloyd3,
Glad to hear your old Smith was taken care of properly, have fun shooting her!
I would use light RST shells in her for longevity shooting or roll your own 1200 FPS and under shells, if you can find some nice light paper shells they work great also.
Happy shooting. I rolled my own for shooting at Nemacolin every week for years, still have a full 5 gallon bucket of Greenies with the WindJjammers Wads, when we want to shoot Clays with her.

I enjoyed the thread again, thanks for bringing her back up.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Dave: The tubes on this gun are really substantial (!). I'd love to only use RST in it but unless things have changed at RST, it will probably end up digesting something a bit more conventional. Now that I know the stock is sound, I'll be somewhat less-concerned about using lighter loads in it. I see that Winchester has begun to produce their Featherlite AA loads again (they now call them low-noise, low-recoil). As long as something along those lines is available, I should be golden. And, of course, I can alway start to reload again. Not cheap either anymore, but at least it's an option.

*Last edited by skeettx on Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I really like my Grade 2 Syracuse Smith 10 gauge

Sweet! I hope you take it out of the stable once in awhile.

Always thought that a 10b, 16b & 410 would be the perfect triumvirate…10 for pass shots at geese & ducks, 16 for all other hunting, 410 for those special target shoots. Almost bought a 10b NID, but still looking for that unicorn 16.

Citori16,

skeettx's S#2 L.C. Smith is a real sweet 10 gauge double gun, have been thinking about owing one for a long time. My Grandfather made the decision to get rid of our 10 gauge L.C. Smith guns because they had Damascus barrels. I do wish he would have kept one in our collection. He thought the 12 gauge guns, with the modern shells, would do the same job the 10 gauge guns did when hunting, so they went down the road to acquire a couple more 12 gauge double guns. Every time I see a nice 10 gauge come up for sale, another 16 gauge graded gun surfaces and the 10 gauge gets put on hold. Sooner or later the timing for the 10 gauge purchase will work out. Would definitely like to own Syracuse 10 gauge like skeet's.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Special Order Pre 13 L.C. Smith 00 with Hunter Arms/Kraus #1 gun Engraving, similar to the Syracuse #2 gun engraving, owned by Skeettx on his 10 gauge.

Dave,

I do like the looks of those Syracuse guns. But eventually I’ll be looking for a 1940s Elsie, so I can shoot relatively modern ammo and not worry. Between the Flues & the Crescent, I have all the 100yo guns that I want.

A 10b NID might be tempting though for those fun days in the goose blind.

Citori16,

The L.C. Smith/Hunter arms metals used in their guns was very high quality metal. The pre 1913 guns had fantastic high quality wood on them also. RST supplies all the 2 1/2" shells I need, no problem purchasing them now. The wood on the later made guns was no where near the quality of the early guns, and with the advent of the 2 3/4" nitro shells, you might consider reversing your thoughts, I have actually seen more cracked stocks on later made L.C. Smith guns, than on the early guns that had very high quality wood and were all hand fit and finished. Look for an early sub gauge double gun that was Special Ordered with 2 3/4" Chambers, or simply purchase a 12 gauge pre 13 gun, most all of them were made with Chambers for 2 3/4" modern Nitro shells, they were engineered with that kind of quality. I always recommend using the RST 1200 FPS and below shells to assure longevity usage of all American Classic double guns, however I know a lot of sportsman who use the modern 12 gauge Nitro shells in their guns with no problems what so ever. Remember in doing this you are putting aa lot of stress on your 100+ year old stock. There are also many post 1913 Special Order sub gauge L.C. Smith guns made with Chambers for 2 3/4" shells, that have serious high grade wood on them. L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms sold more Special Order guns than any other American gun maker.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

L.C. Smith 1914 Special Order 20 gauge Field Grade, with 2 3/4" Chambers and 24" Barrels, with #5 Gun French Walnut Wood. I still use the 2 1/2" RST SpredR shells in her when Grouse & Woodcock hunting, to make sure the gun remains in perfect condition.

My 1893 Quality 3 Smith in 12 gauge