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Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

As you go North, the Grey Phase begins to become more common. Actually, what I am seeing up on the Canadian border is a predominance of what I am calling "mixed-phase" birds. Grey tails and a more-reddish body. We got a few true Grey birds this year (all grey), but the majority were clearly mixed-phase.

Lloyd3,
We have both Reds and Grays here in northern Pa. Not many mixed as you are seeing however. The last bird I killed was Gray, the 1st bird I killed this year was a big Red phase bird. I am seeing very few Woodcock this year and it is bothering me.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Lloyd3,
We have both Reds and Grays here in northern Pa. Not many mixed as you are seeing however. The last bird I killed was Gray, the 1st bird I killed this year was a big Red phase bird. We also have the Mix phase you are taking about, in small numbers. I am seeing very few Woodcock this year and it is bothering me.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Usually when I see red on a bird it's near a Beech stand. I had a beautiful pair cross in front of me in CT about 20 years ago, absolutely gorgeous with prominent black marks on the breast, knocked one down and lost it in the Mountain Laurel. Every lost bird hurts, but I really wanted that red phase bird. I'll never forget that as long as I live. The overstory was all Beech, with the dead leaves on the ground reminiscent of the bird color.

Most of the birds I get are grey phase, but occasionally I get some mixed brown & grey if there's Beech around. Have yet to take a completely red phase like in the pic, will probably have it mounted when I do. I have a couple spots where I see them more often.

Gentlemen,

They are some beautiful Grouse for sure!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Here in our mountains we refer to this Grouse, as a Cinnamon Grouse. We also have the darker Red Phase Grouse here. The Cinnamon Grouse are seriously beautiful, and not seen all that often. This particular Cinnamon Grouse was taken in Tioga County, Pa. We probably should have had it mounted, it was great eating however, and Penny our incredible Gordon Grouse Dog got part of it in her evening meal. After all she found, pointed and retrieved the Cinnamon Grouse to hand and left no mark on it what so ever.

Gentlemen,

This week we saw lots of Bow hunters in the woods. This is usually not a bad thing, most of these Bow hunter are very good sportsman, that walk into the woods and climb into their tree stands and disturb very little. Lately things seem to have changed and many of these early season Deer & Bear hunters, hunting with their Bows are now walking around thru the woods, trying to hunt up their Deer & Bear. Most of the time this stalking method does not work real well in our forest, especially when it is dry, as it is now.
We have talked to a few of these sportsman, they are seeing lots of Grouse. In reality they are busting the birds out of their normal feeding areas, spooking the birds as they walk & drive their vehicles thru the woods. For us Grouse hunters this is a problem, they scare the birds back up into the trees when they are usually feeding on the ground. Myself I have never liked the over lapping Bow season the PGC has created, where the PGC & SFL Foresters open many of the mountain road gates, to allow all the sportsman to drive their vehicles back where we usually walk to Grouse hunt. This started when the early Bow hunting season was instituted for both Deer and Bear. These Bear & Deer hunters who put on drives do mess things up for us Grouse hunters. I do not believe this is going to change, I would really like to see all the gates closed in the SFL & PGC lands once again, it endangers my Grouse dogs when the vehicles come speeding down the mountain logging/acess roads, where our Grouse dogs find and point Grouse. IMO the gates should remain closed during hunting season unless logging is going on and they need to get the logging trucks in and out of the woods. Because as many as 60% of our Grouse hunters have either quit hunting or passed away, I believe the gates will remain open on our SFL & PGC hunting lands unfortunately for us Grouse hunters.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

There are a few of these SFL & PGC gates that remain closed, us Grouse hunter are very grateful that they remain closed.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Thanks Dave for the post and great photos.

Don’t you all love it when a dog looks cross-eyed at a bird up close? How cool!

B.

Brewster11,

Thanks for the nice comment on the pictures, I guess I like my dogs more than I do most people. I do not remember when our family did not own fine gun dogs or fine double guns. My folks owned both long before I was born, I just try to carry on our family traditions and mentor those that want to learn our upland shooting way of life.

I have very little use for big cities or liberal minded people. I am definitely a throw back to my Grandfathers way of life. During my Army career I had to be away from our mountains, when I retired I came back, then President Reagan ask my Father for my professional services and I spent more time away. When President Reagan left office I finally returned home to my family and our way of life. Yes those dogs eyes mean a great deal to me also.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
Some times unexpected things like cancer, happen with our beautiful gun dogs, even so our memories of the happy times are just fantastic.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

Pine Creek/Dave,

I can absolutely understand and identify with your sentiment about liking your dogs more than you do most people. Dogs, to me, are one of life's gifts. Dogs make me proud, they make me laugh, they bring me great joy in the field and they make me cry.......but most of the time I just love them and smile.

I can see that you hold your dogs in high regard.

Be well!

MSM2019,

Thank you sir for your kind words, there is no doubt God blessed me with some fantastic dogs down thru my life time, making my life more complete in every way.
Even during my military career God made sure our military dogs were there to protect me and my men. I do hold all dogs in very high regard, some have saved my life more than once. I am glad sportsman like yourself understand and believe the same way.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Our home would be incomplete without our gun dogs.

Joined: 14 Feb 2022 Posts: 26 Location: Evaro, MT

I have loved this thread. I grew up in Luzerne County but hunted the Northern Tier hard with Rymans and a few GSP’s in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s. A man named Tommy Robinson from Dallas, PA led the group of five, normally with four dogs at a time, and there were so many birds the dogs pretty much trained themselves. There were very few hunters in the woods, and we hunted primarily PGC lands in Bradford County. Friends who hunt there now report tough hunting.

Joined: 14 Feb 2022 Posts: 26 Location: Evaro, MT

I have loved this thread. I grew up in Luzerne County but hunted the Northern Tier hard with Rymans and a few GSP’s in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s. A man named Tommy Robinson from Dallas, PA led the group of five, normally with four dogs at a time, and there were so many birds the dogs pretty much trained themselves. There were very few hunters in the woods, and we hunted primarily PGC lands in Bradford County. Friends who hunt there now report tough hunting.

Gentlemen,

In the 50's I spent a lot of time in the Ryman Kennels, my Grandfather was very good friends with old George Ryman, and housed some of Georges prime female breeding stock, at my Grandfathers home located at 189 West Main Street in Galeton, Pa. George Ryman had a saying about his incredible Grouse dogs, just take them to the woods, and my Ryman dogs will teach you how to Grouse hunt. He repeated those words often every week we were at his home/kennel as he sold his Ryman Grouse Dogs. Even today if the breeders who own them, do their jobs correctly, Ryman Grouse dogs, IMO are still the best companion Grouse hunting dogs in the world.

JockC,
The Grouse hunting on the Northern Tier was pretty fair in your era, in the 50's & 60's it was even greater. Just an incredible Grouse population at that time.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Two of the best Ryman Grouse Dog that ever lived, at less than a year old.

Joined: 27 Nov 2020 Posts: 84 Location: mtns of central PA

Dry, crunchy woods have made it challenging, but my young dog & my old Sweet 16 blessed me w/ a heck of a PA drummer yesterday, one of the biggest birds I've ever gotten. Fan over 14".

Boon,
Great big Cinnamon Grouse, just a fantastic bird. You might want to have a Shadow Box made with the tail and a nice picture of your Dog and maybe the empty shells.

Congrats on a seriously nice Grouse! Give the dog a pat on the head from us hare at Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man