16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

https://www.grayssportingjournal.com/damascus/

I read a similar article by Terry several years ago now, so this is a re-hash of sorts. I just ran across it again (after remembering it).

I've got another damascus gun coming, making 6-guns in total now, over the last 30-years or so. Terry talks about the 1930s propaganda that Americans were subjected-too in his article. I remember the attitude very well from my boyhood and wonder about the many fine American guns that were wrecked in this country by it's effect. The British never bought into that hysteria, which is why so many of those guns still remain in use.

Sherman Bell also wrote several articles in The Doublegun Journal on the subject, the first one beginning in 1999 (Finding out for Myself) where he tested damascus-barreled guns to the point of destruction. His conclusions were pretty eye-opening.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

[url=https://imgur.com/VH7dpg6]

[/url]

Not a 16, but a 6lb2oz 12 BLE. How the Brits could make a 30-inch barreled gun that light & long back in the 1880s is amazing to me, and it's tubes are that "evil" Damascus...

[url=https://imgur.com/pWPDRvx]

[/url]

I do hope the birds don't mind.

Pretty browned pattern

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Thanks! Just found out that pad is covered in elephant. Egads!

Well the pad will never wear out.

My wallet is African elephant hide. It still looks new after 10 years of daily carry.

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 228

Have you measured wall thickness, while possibly made lightweight it could be the result of polishing bores and refinishing the browning that it arrives at 6lb 2oz.

I am always leery of guns too light to be true.

That does not mean it is not a shootable, beautiful gun, but one should verify.

I too love Damascus guns too, and shoot a lovely old Hammergun, with low pressure reloads.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Old Colonel:

Your suggestion as to measurements of damascus guns is spot-on. I never abdicate the responsibility for my own safety to others when it comes to any hammer-forged damascus firearm. I measured this gun yesterday down at my former employers shop (MWReynolds) and indeed, part of the reason for this weapons lighter weight is thinner tubes (20 & 23 K thickness, which was disclosed by the seller). Now, I also own a heavy Damascus double with w/an almost 4-pound tubeset (& w/35 to 45k wall thickness) but it will be used quite differently. One is for upland carry on beautiful Fall days and the other is for breaking targets w/the Vintagers.

I realize that few folks have access to the tools (or skills) necessary to accurately perform these measurements and accordingly, any damascus firearm should be approached with a modicum of caution. Also, use of such a firearm needs to be done with an appreciation for the type of ammunition that needs to be employed (low pressure & recoil, God bless RST!). All of this clearly limits the appeal of these "antiques" to the average shotgunner, as it should. You really have to "want" one of these artifacts from a such different era as they are as much "art" as they are a "tool" IMHO.

Preaching to the choir here, I know, since you are also a hammergun owner & user (they are quite lovely, aren't they?).

[url=https://imgur.com/fG9batg]

[/url]

Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Posts: 150

Wouldn’t black powder and fiber wads be ok in most Damascus barrels?

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

They would, but clean-up is a comparative mess when RSTs work so well. As, of course, do proper nitro handloads.

I used to handload black powder shells for my very 1st damascus gun ( a G-grade Lefever). The minute I discovered proper low-pressue nitro loads, I dispensed with the black powder stuff immediately. For muzzleloading rifles, blackpowder really isn't that big of a deal, but for fine(r) shotguns, it seems it is (at least for me).

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3178 Location: NCWa

To keep the performance of black powder without the clean-up- has anyone tried the black powder substitutes for handloading shotshells?

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 228

Where the thin spots are does matter. Thin spots farther down the bore nearer the muzzle, but not too close to the choke do not concern me as much as nearer the chamber.

On powders for Damascus 12 gauge my favoured low pressure powder for 2 1/2 inch is International (now a near to an impossible find) I have a hoard of it as well as SR4756 and SR7625, even PB. I find the International exceptionally clean burning in my hunting loads.

I prefer my 2.5 inch hunting loads below 7k PSI and target loads below 6k PSI. I have loaded some 5k PSI loads but the lower you go the dirtier they get.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

And...thin spots are fairly common on older guns (where someone has gone into them to hone out corrosion [i.e. "pits"]). When you consider the now-archaic damascus barrel-making process (3 guys w/tongs and hammers, 2 days, and 30 lbs of metal) , consistent wall thickness would likely be problematic. And, if there happens to be any thin spots, far away from where your hands are would be preferable.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

While damascus barreled guns have many admirable qualities, not the least of which is the surprising high tensile strength of damascus steel, I am wary of them. The brother of one of my hunting buddies had his neck slit open by a failed damascus barrel while quail hunting. The condition of the gun at the time is unknown and was likely not inspected by a qualified gunsmith.

From a metallurgical standpoint damascus has many advantages that even today are being discovered and studied. An interesting aspect is the original ores came from mines in India which were exhausted in the 1800s.

That said, low pressure shells being considered mandatory, were I to reload for damascus I would opt for slower burning powders like 800X, Blue Dot or even Longshot. In my testing with the Pressure Trace II system, I observed that slower burning powders can generate equivalent or higher muzzle velocities than high pressure factory shells, but at far lower peak pressures.

I’ll try to post some examples soon.

V/R
B.

Joined: 30 Sep 2019 Posts: 145 Location: Colorado

Thanks for doing that. I’ll be very interested in them for my pattern welded barrels. With the powder issues we’re experiencing, I find myself looking for potential options if my go-to powders don’t come back.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Sherman Bell also performed some interesting tests concerning powders. He compared black powder with various smokeless powders. Those results were as interesting as his Damascus destructive tests. Slow vs. fast is more an issue of available energy and its delivery than how long it takes to burn. The pressure level is more the goal than how "slow" the powder is.