16ga.com ~ View topic - 16 Gauge American & Euro Classic Grouse Gun, still best!

Gentlemen,

Having started my bird hunting career at a very early age in the 50's, I have owned many different beautiful Grouse Guns, including some of the Brit Best double guns.
Early on I found that the 16 gauge SXS double guns fit me perfectly, and with their 6.0 - 6.5 weight, swing and mounting capabilities, the 16 made for the perfect Grouse gun for me. Light enough to carry all day up and down the Grouse mountains and just heavy enough to assure perfect swing, for shooting true double Grouse, the guns are just fantastic. For a long time however we had to roll our own shells, especially for our 2 1/2" Chambered guns. Thankfully Morris Baker changed all that with his 2 1/2" RST SpredR shells. I thank him every time I purchase his incredible RST shells, I even sold my MEC reloader because I can purchase his shells in bulk, delivered right to my log cabin in Potter/Tioga, Pa.

If you have never owned a high quality SXS Grouse gun describing the feel, fit and balance of one of these 16 gauge guns is actually hard to do, until you have hunted with one of your own.
Once you have one of these SXS double guns that fit you perfectly, its hard to Grouse hunt with any other gun. This includes my fantastic 20 gauge and 28 gauge double guns. Some Grouse hunters like them even better than the 16. After hunting with my 28 and 20 gauge guns they are close, but still IMO do not measure up to my incredible 16 gauge guns. The automatic swing is just not the same as the 16 gauge gun, I believe its the lighter weight of those guns that keep it from happening.

Most all of the true double Grouse shots I have taken, happen automatically with my 16 gauge SXS double guns. Because my Grandfather was good friends with George Bird Evens SR, GBE and I often huntered both Quail and Grouse not far from GBE's home in Uniontoen, Pa. I wanted to carry GBE's Purdey gun as we Quail hunterd what was the last of the wild Quail, in the farm fields above GBE's original home in Pa. I never got to shoot that Purdey gun, and it was sure a beauty, GBE on the other hand got to shoot a fine true double Quail that day, with my Grandfathers 16 gauge L.C. Smith double gun. All he said was I wish my father could have seen that happen.

For years he tried to purchase that 16 gauge Silver Breach Double gun, it did fit him perfectly. I still own that special made 16 Silver Breach gun even today, no amount of money can ever purchase it. I do own another 16 gauge gun that maybe its equal, a J.P. Sauer 16 gauge Grouse gun, hand made in the early 1800's with very high quality Krupp barrels, on a 20 gauge Sauer frame, the gun weighs 5.10lbs. and is one incredible Grouse gun, I have shot a couple true Grouse doubles with it also, and missed the only other mixed Woodcock & Grouse true double I have been granted by God to see, in over 50 years of hunting. The gun did not swing fast enough to take the Grouse on the 2nd shot. I shot behind the Grouse as he flew thru the trees.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

My Grandfathers Special made L.C. Smith 16 gauge Silver Breach double gun, made for his 13th birthday.

Our incredible Sidelock 16 Gauge Sauer hand made Grouse gun, from the early 1800's.

Kays picture of GBE in the Grouse woods that day, with his young Ryman/Old Hemlock dogs

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Great stories, guns, and photos, Dave. Hope your grouse population enjoys a resurgence to the marvelous days of yore. I’ve always believed that the SxS is by far the best gun for grouse and woodcock in the northern woods.

There’s simply too little time for anything more than a quick mount and a swing at a blur of feathers, and the wide twin barrels provide an ample peripheral visual reference amid the tangled background (and foreground) of trees, leaves, limbs, branches and brush.

By the same token however, I find the wide SXS barrel plane too imprecise for pass shooting. Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer a single barrel repeater or O/U for overhead birds against open sky. The converging barrels of a SXS confuse my eye in wide open shots as much as they help in the woods.

May you enjoy many more seasons with your splendid SXS guns and legendary grouse haunts, what a wealth of bounty and backdrop.

V/R
B.

Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 685 Location: Ontario

Dave that’s a very interesting Sauer you have there (despite the small typo….I think your gun is from the early 1900s Very Happy

). That is a darn light 16. How long are the barrels?

I have a Sauer sidelock of similar vintage. However it is a 12 gauge built on the frame they often used for 16 gauge. With 29” barrels it weights in at 6 lbs 4 oz. Sauer’s 12 ga sidelocks from that era were typically 7 pounds and up.

I’ve been on a bit of a 16 gauge buying spree over the last year and a bit. Just closed on my fifth since the start of 2023. All Germanic in origin. All but one from the 1920s. The odd man out is an 1893 gun.

CB,
The Krupp barrels are 28" long. Always good to add to the 16 gauge double gun collection, have been doing it myself. Picked up a CZ Bob White 16 but the gun is not the advertised 6.4 Lbs, came in at 6.10 without shells in the gun. Way to heavy for a 16 gauge Grouse gun at almost 7.0 lbs IMO.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

Just picked up a 16 sxs English 6.2 lbs.28” and yes they do go up quick and swing great.There are a lot of nice old English box locks out there almost half the price of my fausti DEA.

Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 444 Location: WI

I always purchased RST shells, but now with them being always out of stock and $34 per box plus shipping, I produce my own 2-9/16" loads on the ol' MEC 600 Sizemaster.

nj GSP,

Was just on the RST web sight, Morris Baker has all the RST 16 gauge shells back in stock now, including the SpredR's. Looks like he is back in full operation! Purchase by the case, unfortunately no free shipping, which does make the RST shells expensive.
Sold my good Progressive MEC reloader years ago, fortunately when COVID hit I had some stock and a few of the guys supplied me with 16 gauge shells also, so I was really unaffected by his inventory shortage at that time. If you need more 2 1/2" RST shells they are available now.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

I really enjoy shooting the 2 1/2 inch ammo, I use it in the Krieghoff Drilling, Winchester Model 12 pump and GECO SXS

I shoot the 2 3/4 in the Citori, Remington 3200 and Rem 1100

What joy !!

Very Happy

Mike

Skeettx,
What a joy to have all the shells we need once again, the ability to purchase the RST 2 1/2" shells, by the case, instead of rolling my own is just fantastic. I wish Polywad was still in business making their great 2 1/2" SpredR's also. Unfortunately after that company was sold, it seems to have just disappeared from business, no more great Polywad shells at all. Looks like RST is back into full operation however!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

A fantastic #5 L.C. Smith double gun and the last of my Polywad SpredR shells.

Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 483 Location: South Eastern PA

Geez Dave it looks like a viewing in a funeral home!

Mourning the last of the Polywads! LOL

I load my own 2 1/2 inch using a MEC reloader or a Pacific, or a Hornady

I load the 2 3/4 with an "M" Series Texan in 16 gauge, a SWEET machine !!

Mike

skeettx,
I willingly admit it was a big mistake to sell my Progressive MEC reloader, I never took into consideration something like COVID could happen in the USA.
Further in Ohio just recently law enforcement just found the Chineese in a run down industrial building, with all kinds of experimental diseases in viles, right here in the USA. My understanding is these Chineese people have been arrested, but my buddy did not have any further info on what is actually happening. These Chineese people advised law enforcement that these kind of illegal facilities are now all over the USA, thanks to the open border policy.

definitely hold on to your reloaders!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

ROMAC,

Exactly morning the death of Polywad!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.c. Smith Man

Joined: 17 Oct 2019 Posts: 456 Location: New Jersey

Dave, I heard of one of those labs in California but Ohio? When was this? I can’t find anything on it.

Swampy,
This just happened, my good friend Ken Graft advised me about it, he lives in Ohio and has his gun shop business there also. Unfortunately he had limited knowledge about what really happened, except what I have stated, it is being kept very quiet.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man