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< 16ga. Guns ~ Citori Failure to Fire |
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Posted:
Fri May 03, 2024 3:24 pm
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Billings MT
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Stepped out behind the ranch house to shoot some euro trash doves and my second barrel failed to go off.
Tried it again, same results. I know this subject has come up before here, what was the solution?
Funny that my 80's vintage 12 and 20 gauge has never missed a beat. Just my newer 16. |
_________________ Sell your robe and buy a sword. |
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Posted:
Fri May 03, 2024 4:47 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9472
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Posted:
Fri May 03, 2024 5:28 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1115
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If it is a 16 ga Citori one of my hunting buddies has a 16 ga 425 that eats firing pins and after going back to Browning three times has been retired to the back of his gun safe. He refuses to put it up for auction and pass along a problem gun which I find admirable. He does say he's not the only one experiencing firing pin failures on those guns. His handle on SGW is cdb1097 if you need more info and may be on here with the same handle. |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
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Posted:
Fri May 03, 2024 9:02 pm
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 452
Location: WI
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By second barrel, do you mean the over or under barrel?
I had this issue mostly with a 525 Field and only with the under barrel, which was remedied by replacing the under barrel firing pin with a 20 gauge pin. The part numbers are different between the 20 and 16 gauge pins, but dimensionally they are the same within what I expect are reasonable manufacturing tolerances.
The problem more than likely is either a dirty firing pin and firing pin socket, or factory ammo where the primer is set a little too deep. Disassembly and deep cleaning may resolve the problem, as well as trying a different brand of ammunition. |
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Posted:
Fri May 03, 2024 9:09 pm
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 452
Location: WI
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Posted:
Sat May 04, 2024 4:40 am
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Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Too far south in New England
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What nj gsp said. I have only experienced this on the lower barrel.
Most, if not all, of my ftf have been on my practice loads which are usually way past due and the bottom of the brass is ever so slightly concave after many reloads. I also had a slightly less than desirable primer seating setting where the drop tube would not push the hull down enough to reform the brass after seating the primer. Needed to get the top spring on the MEC to compress at least half way. I have just reloaded my match hulls which were new this past season for a shoot tomorrow so I will see if the adjustment does its job. These are Cheddite primers/ hulls.
I also clean the firing pins and recess before hunting or a match. Muzzloader pipe cleaners doubled over & twisted help a lot, as does an ultrasonic cleaner for the pins. Hoppes #9 removes the carbon gunk from the recess best of all the stuff I have, though I may try some Seafoam.
I have the J&P kit as well, but have not swapped out yet as I need to make a tool to remove the main springs without sending them to the next dimension…I hate springs, the little ones disappear in an instant and the big ones crush things indiscriminately like hands.
So I believe the problem is 3-fold. I have experienced this on my WL & Gr 6, not on the Feather yet, but I haven’t shot it much. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Sat May 04, 2024 1:17 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1320
Location: Western WA
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Was having the same chronic lower barrel FTF with the Citori. The Ancient Ones at the club said they all do that, no problem, just replace the firing pin spring every year. Per Skeettx note, the JNP springs fixed it, problem gone. The JNP springs are stiff, I used a little leather strip to help compress them to install.
B. |
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Posted:
Sat May 04, 2024 2:30 pm
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Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Too far south in New England
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I saw a video where a guy ground some pump pliers into a tool to replace the springs, worked very smooth & easy. I’m going to try that once I find my cheapo pump pliers. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Mon May 06, 2024 9:36 am
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Billings MT
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Thanks for all of these responses. I ordered pins and springs and will have a local smith install them.
Interesting to note that of all my shotguns, some dating back to the teens (20th Century), I've never had these failures. I bought my first Citori in 1980. I knew I couldn't afford more than one gun so I had to get an upland piece that also work in the goose blind. That gun was a Citori Sporter, straight stock, 26 inch barrels, 3 inch, IC/M choked.
In the off season I'd even shoot in a skeet league (gun down) to keep my eyes sharp, till the kids activities interfered. Thousands of rounds went tru that O/U, not light rounds, heavy ones. Repairs to it was a reblueing and a new butt stock. I'm still on the original springs.
Browning should issue a recall. My defective gun is a Citori White Lightning, 16 gauge, of course. |
_________________ Sell your robe and buy a sword. |
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Posted:
Mon May 06, 2024 9:37 am
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Billings MT
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Thanks for all of these responses. I ordered pins and springs and will have a local smith install them.
Interesting to note that of all my shotguns, some dating back to the teens (20th Century), I've never had these failures. I bought my first Citori in 1980. I knew I couldn't afford more than one gun so I had to get an upland piece that also work in the goose blind. That gun was a Citori Sporter, straight stock, 26 inch barrels, 3 inch, IC/M choked.
In the off season I'd even shoot in a skeet league (gun down) to keep my eyes sharp, till the kids activities interfered. Thousands of rounds went tru that O/U, not light rounds, heavy ones. Repairs to it was a reblueing and a new butt stock. I'm still on the original springs.
Browning should issue a recall. My defective gun is a Citori White Lightning, 16 gauge, of course. |
_________________ Sell your robe and buy a sword. |
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Posted:
Mon May 06, 2024 9:38 am
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Billings MT
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Thanks for all of these responses. I ordered pins and springs and will have a local smith install them.
Interesting to note that of all my shotguns, some dating back to the teens (20th Century), I've never had these failures. I bought my first Citori in 1980. I knew I couldn't afford more than one gun so I had to get an upland piece that also work in the goose blind. That gun was a Citori Sporter, straight stock, 26 inch barrels, 3 inch, IC/M choked.
In the off season I'd even shoot in a skeet league (gun down) to keep my eyes sharp, till the kids activities interfered. Thousands of rounds went tru that O/U, not light rounds, heavy ones. Repairs to it was a reblueing and a new butt stock. I'm still on the original springs.
Browning should issue a recall. My defective gun is a Citori White Lightning, 16 gauge, of course. |
_________________ Sell your robe and buy a sword. |
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Posted:
Wed May 08, 2024 9:53 am
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1320
Location: Western WA
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Big Horn, I totally understand your disappointment. In my view, the Citori FTF might just be “one of those things.” I liken the task of replacing pins and springs to changing the oil in your car. The Brits like to take their shotguns in to the gunsmith every year for an annual tuneup. We don’t observe that tradition here but many of us like to tinker with our guns, and the Citori falls into that category.
But you are quite correct, it shouldn’t have to be that way, virtually all American made guns don’t need such care. But nothing is likely to change, the Citori is incredibly popular, sturdy and high quality, with more than a million of them out there. Hopefully you find it simple and easy to replace the springs. Maybe there’s a Youtube video showing how to do it.
B. |
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Posted:
Wed May 08, 2024 1:47 pm
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 965
Location: Minnesota
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I bought a used grade III citori in 16 ga. It had a serious ftf in the bottom barrel.
I took it to Ahlmans in Mn and they fixed it, no charge, and it worked just fine after they fixed it. I ended up selling it and buying another with 28” barrels, the first one was 26”. |
Last edited by df on Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Posted:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:21 am
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Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 682
Location: MAINE
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I just started using my NIB 525 Sporting with 32" barrels again . When I bought it back when they came out I hunted a lot more so it only was shot a couple rounds of Clays . Now I'm retired it sees more use but still not a lot . I move around with several guns . It had a couple FTF . My smith took it apart . He said like new but cleaned and lubed . It still failed . Sent it to another who replaced the springs and still FTF .
Finally sent it to Art's . They also could not find a FTF . Spoke to Art personally and honestly ready to dump it . He suggested Mechanical triggers . $150 and done and no problems since . I had never heard of anyone suggesting this approach . I wonder why. |
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Posted:
Thu May 16, 2024 5:17 pm
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 452
Location: WI
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Aren't they already mechanical triggers? Look, it's a simple system, and I mean simple - there not much to it.
When you pull the trigger, the sear trips, and the hammer is driven forward by a spring and strikes the end of the solid one piece firing pin, driving it into the primer.
The under barrel firing pin has a return spring. The over barrels does not. If the under firing pin is a little too short, especially on a deep set primer, or with barrels with chamber headspace cut a little too deep, or the firing pocket is clogged with carbon and powder residue, it may not go off.
if the firing pin punctures the primer, or blowback pushes to the breech and back through the firing pin hole, carbon and other contaminants will be forced into the firing pin bore, and this contamination will restrict the firing pin movement.
Citori actions are very simple, and this lower barrel FTF issue has simple solutions:
1. Clean your gun!
2. Check firing pin length
3. Use good quality ammo
4. Check breech headspace |
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