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< 16ga. Guns ~ Japanese KFC 16ga Westley Richards copy gun |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:20 pm
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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Just picked this one up after selling some more 12s. Interesting gun not very much information on them after looking at a handful and serial numbers it’s built after 1955 anyone have any other information? Seems Japanese 16ga sxs are rare in the US?
I did pattern it today it’s definitely worth having it cleaned up. Original length 13.75in (original kfc plate) but will be nice 14.5 with pad. 28” barrels ic/ full.
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_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:17 pm
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1483
Location: Mpls, MN.
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The lever work is quite different than a Westley Richards:
[url=https://ibb.co/WVgm0CG]
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Some styling similarities, but, the roots are A&D, with a nod toward Webley. Appears to have a copy of Southgate ejectors installed, but, would need to see more to be sure. You don’t see or hear about quality issues on the Japanese makers, hard to find any information at all.
Looks like a sweet 16 gauge. Enjoy.
Best,
Ted |
_________________ "Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go". |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:50 pm
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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Thanks Ted, what is this westlley Richards action called ( I know it’s A&D) but not a drop lock like the one you pictured. Did WR even make this one below?
Sorry not arguing with you I know about the WR drop lock but was talking about the A&D WR IN PIC above or did someone else make these for WR since obviously this one in the pic here is, well a dead ringer for the jap action, even copied the saftey?
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_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:30 am
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Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 480
Location: New Jersey
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Wow, that’s a pretty gun. |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:15 am
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1483
Location: Mpls, MN.
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There are guys who can look at the flats and tell you who made an English gun, regardless of who’s name is on it. I’m not that guy. But, a firm like Westley’s would have concentrated on their own action, and farmed out stuff that ended up with their name on it, but, utilized a design that was not their own, or, outside of their expertise.
I’ve seen many English guns with styling cues similar to the Japanese gun you bought, but, I’d wager that most of them came from Birmingham, and were brought in, rather than finished up at places like McNaughton, Westley Richards, Riley’s, etc.
There are side lock guns with the name Westley Richards on them, but, very few were built by Westley Richards. AA Brown built most of them.
The Japanese gunmakers were master copycats, and it was a philosophy that served them well. There was no need to reinvent the wheel as far as gun making was concerned. The external styling cues don’t really change the fact that we are looking at a gun that owes much to the A&D patent for the box lock shotgun, rather than any particular English maker.
It looks like a real sweetheart. A 16 gauge, chopper lump, ejector, box lock. Never have seen a Japanese gun check all those boxes. Let me know if you ever want to sell it.
Best,
Ted |
_________________ "Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go". |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:36 am
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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Thanks, Ted I’m always trying to learn a bit. I once owned a book on Birmingham guns that was pretty darn informative but I believe it got left with one of my x’s. I will have to buy that one again. |
_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:43 pm
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Joined: 07 Jun 2020
Posts: 253
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Looks like a very nice find. |
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Posted:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:48 am
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Joined: 12 May 2022
Posts: 14
Location: Texas & New Mexico
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Jta5er wrote: |
Thanks Ted, what is this westlley Richards action called ( I know it’s A&D) but not a drop lock like the one you pictured. Did WR even make this one below?
Sorry not arguing with you I know about the WR drop lock but was talking about the A&D WR IN PIC above or did someone else make these for WR since obviously this one in the pic here is, well a dead ringer for the jap action, even copied the saftey?
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there is a serial number set of westley richards guns that were conventional A & D actions without the c-bite third lock....they are identified by a T with the serial number....this gun is an example.
best regards,
tom |
_________________ "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland |
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Posted:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:24 am
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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Thanks guys! I do love the WR but I’m happy to take this nice little Japanese copy. It’s very close to the AYA 4 deluxe which runs 4-6k which is still lots more than this thing. It shoots well,had it on 5 stand yesterday. It will need just some cosmetics now.
I did find more history with google translation if anyone needs more information on these. Thanks |
_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:51 am
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Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Posts: 31
Location: Lake Taupo, NZ
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Yes, please. Some more information would be good.
I have a 16 ga SxS by Kusaga and can find little about.
More data may help in the search for my sweet beastie. |
_________________ Simplify, simplify. |
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Posted:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:58 am
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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KFC and Miroku are not the same company. Translated a paper/ interview to English that explained the older was KFC they were actually a gunpowder producer first then got into guns. Miroku entered an agreement with KFC to move their new guns( Miroku started with whaling gun and air guns before agreement) for years before Browning picked them up. Also according to Winchester study from 1959 Olin made deal with KFC to produce 101 o/u for them. http://library.centerofthewest.org/digital/collection/p17097coll30/id/6146/ |
_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:21 am
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Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1360
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Posted:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:15 pm
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Member

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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Nice find, Jeff! Hope to see it one of these days. That first Westley Richards gun shown has the Webley patented screw-grip lock-up -- very distinctive. The second one is a regular underbolt A&D. The gun you bought was made in that classic A&D box-lock pattern. Looks like fairly nice hand engraving, too. How much did you pay for that? You don't have to say, mind you. Weight?
Cheers!
Tony |
_________________ "What we don't need to know for achievement, we need to know for our pleasure. Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:31 pm
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 296
Location: Ky
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Hello, I’m Jim friends call me Jimmy. This KFC weighs 6lbs 28” barrels and lop 13.75 over factory butt. All in 900.00. Wood is much nicer than I thought, also with 1in leather pad will be about right at 14.5in. Tempted to just use factory plate and a slip on. I haven’t decided to have the action cch, blued or French gray. Originally it had cch action, blued bottom plate and forend iron.
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_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
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Posted:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:35 pm
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9523
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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