16ga.com ~ View topic - Differences of 16 ga wad dimensions in certain areas.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

While getting things ready for the winter ( keep me busy with things to do ) season. Since I taper off on my shooting cause hate.the weather below 50* I use that time to get things ready for the spring season. Although I do shoot alittle during winter but very little. I start my time in getting my claybuster wads expanded. I was curious about the dimensions of the euro, DR, Claybuster.
The expansion ring on thr diameter of the euro and DR, and claybuster is all most identical as far as keeping powder migration. Lots of play inside all the hulls. The are around the outside edge of the shotbed is alittle bigger what makes the the wad appear tighter to the inside hull. Now I flare an expansion area at the over powder area but it does not stop all migration. But what i was surprised most was the other wads almost identical to the claybuster wad without the flare. The cot of those wads is considerable more.To check the wad to hull I cut the hull below the crimp ring then insert the wad and you can feel the large gap of play.
Now I am checking hull that have been fired 2,3,4 times not once fired. This is with cheddite hulls and the purple herter hull. However I do not shoot low pressure amo for trap games. Maybe the low pressure hulls don't expand. I don't know. Old 16.

An inexpensive set of calipers will answer all your questions.

If you have a very defined question perhaps Mark will have the time to answer as he is very well versed on the in and out what is and what's not

If you have questions that Mark cannot answer ( which I would doubt ) we will do our best to find an answer.

So much of this is archived on this forum , all your questions would be answered I will bet in information from the past.

Get ready for winter 🥶❄️

Regards Nick

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Yes I have expensive calipers,Mics and many gages. I basicly wasn't asking a question although it may seem like it.
I was just pointing out that by the tolerances they will not stop powder migration even with much of the flake powder. That's the reason I flare the over powder part of the claybuster wad.

It was a bit nebulous , I assumed it was intending to be a statement.

As for the claybuster wad prevention of powder migration.

It wasn't with the current line up of hulls available today with the exception of the Remington RGL not bad compatibility with that combination.

Winchester compression formed hulls and your golden.

Missed matched with available components has and will be difficult at best.

Now days it's not what one wants to use , but what one has to do with.

Shooting is a compromise , one will never have what is optimal simply what is marginal.

Regards Nick

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1947 Location: Central ND

Hammer Bill,

I think you are a bit inaccurate about powder migration.

The CB0100-16, CB0078-16 and SP16 wads fit properly in the Remington 2 piece plastic hull (RGL) and the Winchester CF hull and won't allow powder migration with flake powders. The SP16 might allow some ball powders to migrate in the Remington, but.....The two Claybuster wads will not allow any powders to migrate in either hull.

All of the Gualandi wads, all of the B&P wads and the DR16 wad will not allow any powder to migrate in any 16 gauge hull now available.

I say this because neither measuring the wads or using the wads in the hulls they were intended for, reveal any powder migration issues.

The SP16 and the two Claybusters were never meant to be used in Federal hulls and all the other Euro hulls. I know there is data for those wads to be used in these hulls, but that is a mistake on the folks doing developing the data. We as reloaders have to be aware of weaknesses in the folks posting the data.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Msm2019
I have compared all wads euros and the Dr's rems,& clayb. They all are sloppy the modern hulls of today. Yes of the one pc win they are perfect even use them in rems.
By flaring the over powder I can get the claybuster fit snug in the modern hulls.
If you cut a hull just below the crimp and insert a wad. No matter what brand they will rattle but the area at around the shot bed is larger making them appear to fit snug. But powder will creep up to that point around the shot bed.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1947 Location: Central ND

Hammer Bill,

With all due respect, Gualandi and B&P wads fit tight in Cheddite, RIO, Federal, Aguila and any other 16 gauge hull on the market. The finest grain, smokeless powder made will not migrate when using these wads.

It's easy to prove me wrong, just cut down a Cheddite or other straight wall hulls and insert a Gualandi or B&P (not BPI) wad in the hull.

I am talking about inserting the overpowder cup end only.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Msm209
I will dig some out and do that. I have wads that were
For active and try them. I do remember their from balastic products.
I have a flat of the red hornet 16 active also.
But I have not found any that would do as you say. With the modern hulls that is. What wad would you recomend. Thanks.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1947 Location: Central ND

Gualandi BRG 16/21 better known as the SG16 or BRG 16/18, better known as the SG16S.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Msm2019
I've tried the ones you suggested. After cutting off below the crimp area leaving a clear opening
i inserted the wads you suggested. Inserted in to the point just below the rim of the shot bed. Their is basically no contact with the side wall. By tipping the hull upside down the wads fall out of the hull. By inserting the wads past the shot bed the wad makes complete contact. But that does not stop any powder migration. By putting the wad on a 5 power 30" comparator their is atleast..005 gap per side in most hulls giving ( to my thinking ) to much area for migration. Even By expanding a claybuster wad is stretching it considerably. The straightway hulls have a large volume area to pack powder but if your not using large flake or heavy grain powders you will have migration.
I believe the idea of the wad fits snug inside the hull By the rim of the
shotbed is a misconception about migration. The white RIO hull shows the migration considerably. Old 16

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1947 Location: Central ND

Hammer Bill,

I have never had or seen any powder migration with the Gualandi or B&P wads in any current hull.

I have been using those wads and developed extensive data (especially for the B&P wads) for those wads since the late 1990's, using all types of powders.

In the hulls I have the overpowder cup is in contact with the hull I.D. just like it was back in the 1990's. Remember that both Gualandi and B&P wads are made for straight wall hulls.

If your wads/hulls exhibit a .010" gap, that is much too small of a gap to allow any powder to migrate.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1947 Location: Central ND

When the weekend comes I will have time to further explore this subject with pictures and such.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Msm
I would send pictures on here but never have any luck with getting them on here. All I can do is thru message.

Static aids the powder jumping up in the case during the loading process with a mistaken concept of migration.

Mute point , we contend with what we have to work with and no more.

All are free to design a new wad and build a mold to meet their specific requirements, this is what I did .

Having found out that 1/2 , 5/8 , and 3/4 oz loads at high to very high velocity are extremely easy on old guns and kill game way out of proportion to our conscious minds abilities to perceive.

I am happy to know when I point closer to the target I get rewards, monkey see target monkey shoot target monkey get banana.

Shooting and hunting is an athletic event, everything is a compromise one never has the optimal equipment for a given situation , often marginal at best.

Regards Nick

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 850

Charlie Hammack,
I agree with you on that point
Goes without saying. Old 16