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Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 169 Location: Grampian, PA

Anyone currently hunt Ruffs or other Upland game w/ a 21? Anybody used to hunt w/ a 21?

Interested to hear any & all experiences, good OR bad.

Tom,

Long ago we owned a 16 Gauge M21 Skeet grade gun, I very foolishly traded the gun away. It stayed in my gun cabinet for years without being used in the Grouse woods. It was much to heavy to be used as a good Grouse gun, looking back I should have kept the gun and shot Clays with it more often, they are now worth a small fortune. Never had any problems with the gun, shot it very very well as a Clays gun, however I have rule that all my guns must be good Grouse guns to be kept around permanently. My buddy Don Moody down in Texas and I owned the exact same 16 guage M21 guns that sat for years in our gun cabinets without being used.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith/Westley Richards Man

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3276 Location: NCWa

My go to guns for the last several years have been Parker VHs and Win 21s. Prior to that I used Browning Superposed Lightning 20s. The weights were between 6# 0oz and 6# 10 oz. Other than picking them up side by side, I can't tell the difference in the weights. Most of my upland hunting is for Chukars and grouse followed by put&take pheasants. I can tell very little difference in the shooting of either the parkers or the Winchesters. The Brownings are different due to O-U vs SxS. For chukars, any gun feels heavy after the first hundred feet of elevation gain but that all goes away after the first rise.

Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 508 Location: South Eastern PA

I have a light for a 12 gauge 21 with 26 inch barrels and use it occasionally for woodcock. I hear you about weight, I passed on a good deal for a model 21-16 gauge years ago because it weighed as much as my 12. Mine has factory C/Mod chokes, which is a rare combination, and I have a stash of Polywad spreader 8's which make for a great Timberdoodle load in the thick stuff for the mod barrel. Still regret not buying the 16 sometimes though.

Here it is with a Fox Sterlingworth 16 which is what my hunting group uses most.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1282 Location: Nebraska

I had two at one point, both with double triggers, it took a while to get the stocks dialed in (which can be the case with any gun) and they performed as well as any of my other guns. As a fan of Winchesters I felt fortunate to have gotten them when I did.

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 385 Location: mpls mn

I have one its a 16 gauge straight stock single trigger 28" barrels I've managed several limits of grouse both ruffed and prairie with that gun since I've owned it despite its weight LOL I shot some upper midwest pheasants with it last weekend i like 21s

Member Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 328 Location: So Cal

I have a 16ga Win21 that I have used for pheasants, quail, ducks and geese. I also use it for skeet and 5-stand, some trap. It's 28", choked m/f and usually shoot regular, non-spreader loads. Splinter forearm, single trigger, 7lbs 1oz with a thick Kick-eez pad to bring LOP to 15".
I've been shooting it for 68 yrs, owned it for 50. It's not only the one shotgun I'll never part with, it's the only gun I won't part with.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2108 Location: Central ND

This question is from a guy that loves the looks of the Model 21, though I have never even picked one up let alone shot one.

It seems that some think a 16 gauge Model 21 is too heavy. What is considered too heavy for a SxS in the grouse woods?

I suppose it depends on how you hunt.

This year’s trip to the grouse woods saw everything from a sub-6 lb Citori Feather to a plus 7 lb Flues. If I knew I was walking a bit and would have to be ready both in and out, I took a light gun. If I was cover hopping I took whatever fit the cover, usually the Flues or NID. But that was mostly nostalgia. 6.5 lbs is right in the middle.

I have thought about a Win21, simply for the durability. But the price holds me back. If I did own one, and shot well with it, I would probably use it for both field and range. I’m not crazy about the lines on them, but the durability pulls me in.

Plus, it’s a Winchester.

Member Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 328 Location: So Cal

I think that the weight of a gun is one thing to consider but balance is more important to me. I prefer guns that are ~7lbs, +/- a few ounces. My Win21 balances beautifully, even 1-handed around the pistol grip.
I gave my son a Beretta 687 that I got from my sister after her husband passed away because, for me, it was too whippy at 6lbs 0oz. I shot good scores with it at trap when I had it premounted but I shoot skeet and 5-stand with a low mount - the same way I use it when hunting.
The one thing that some people don't like about the Win21 is that when the gun is open you have to open it a little more to put shells in it. The reason that many of us like it is that you can carry the gun open, with 2 shells in the chamber and they won't fall out even if you point the open gun upwards - perfectly safe when hunting.
Shooting this gun is second nature to me. That's the best thing you can have in a hunting or target gun.

I agree 100% on balance. The unfortunate part is everyone’s best balance point is different. And I believe each person’s favorite gun balance can change with prolonged use of a certain gun. Balance for me is related to the mount, as I also shoot low gun, even at trap. I have an 8 lb Zephyr Uplander that flies to the shoulder. I am considering some major surgery for it to bring down the weight, but I am reluctant because I don’t know how it will affect balance.

Most people judge balance in relation to the hinge pin, but I think that’s misleading. I believe it’s the position of the hands in relation to the balance point, as well as the length of pull. I still have a relatively thick chest, so most of my mass with the gun mounted brings the center of inertia in. I experience the same swing whether it’s a light or heavy gun….as long as I’m doing it right. But with a heavy gun station 8 becomes more challenging, especially with a squad of 3 or less in a lightning round. The mount is just not as quick.

One of my experiments I intend to do is to determine each of my shotguns balance point and measure its distance from each of my hands in a comfortable mount. I’m just curious to understand why I like certain guns more than others. Then if I ever decide to take the plunge on a M21 I’ll have a better idea of how much I will like it.