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Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

Ive had a 1928 16ga FW Elsie for a long time and enjoy it alot. But Ive read about the earlier ones from when the sideplates were a little different shape maybe OOs? Cant remember when but seems like the change to FW was about 1909? What would I notice different from the one I have now?

Joined: 27 Jan 2016 Posts: 536 Location: Oswego, Kansas

Up until 1929 the bore of 16ga elsies was .650 not the normal .662 . Using plastic wad loads results in tighter patterns and a little more recoil. That is the reason I use fiber wads loads as much as possible. The chambers also are shorter than 2 3/4, usually referred to as 2 9/16 but mine measure 2 5/8.

This is from the FAQs on the LCSCA website. There are pics comparing the Reg and FW frame lockplates
https://www.lcsmith.org/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

The Featherweight (FW) frame was introduced with the 20 gauge gun in 1907, but it wasn't referred to as the "Featherweight” in company verbiage until 1909. The first 20 gauge recorded is a No. 2 SN 1003 July 12, 1907, but the first recorded 20 gauge as “FW” is a No. 00 SN 1104, December 4, 1907.
Nine 20 gauge Specialty Grades, twenty two 20 gauge Ideals, and twelve 20 gauge Fields are recorded as having Regular weight frames, but none have been found. Only 11 16 gauge Specialty Grades, 28 16 gauge Ideals, and 88 (<1%) of 16 gauge Fields were R frame.

Featherweight frames 1907-1912 do not have a Fw stamp before the SN; 1912-1945 have a Fw prefix.

It is not known when the first 12 gauge guns were made using the FW frame, but pre-1913 12 gauge FWs are not uncommon. Unfortunately, production records prior to July 1918 did not record the frame size. From 1918 until production ended in 1950, 28% of 12 gauge Field Grades were built on the R frame, as were 38% of 12 gauge Skeet Specials (introduced in 1926). All the LRWF used the Reg frame.

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

Thanks. Was OO a grade or a frame size or neither? Would it weigh more or less than mine? So if the serial numbers didnt have an R or FW theres no way to know which frame it is? Interesting stuff for an Elsie fan.

The No. 00 was the lowest pre-1913 grade introduced in 1898, and became the Field post-1913
The Smith grades are shown here
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=43784&module_id=246415

The Reg. frame and FW frame lockplates are shown on the FAQ. The FW lockplates have an additional screw forward on the plate.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1677 Location: Denver, Colorado

Savage 16: Are you talking about the dip-edged lockplates on the earlier guns?

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

Dip edged?? I think so?? When I posted this I was watching an auction that said it was an OO.

Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 529 Location: WI

I will have to see if I can find the means to measure the bores of my Specialty Grade. I've been using up old Gamebore #7's and RST #7 papers that I have in abundance with my old girls.

This Elsie is a 1922 vintage, with a FW frame and weighs in at 6lbs 8.5oz. Hardly what I would consider a "featherweight", but that said, it carries much lighter than it's actual weight belies. However I must confess that in the last season or two, I'm more drawn to taking my A grade AH Fox afield, as the shape of the receiver is more pleasant to carry one handed, and it weighs almost 3/4 of a pound less, making it a true "carry a lot, shoot a little" gun.

But, I do love the Elsie also, so I'm always torn which to take along. We all have our favorites...