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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2180

Several years ago there was a thread concerning Cheddite and similar hulls that tend to grow larger as they are reloaded. The issue isn't the brass it is the plastic tube. Since I had never had it happen, I was in opposition saying that it doesn't happen, well......what goes around, comes around.

I have had it happen now with some Cheddite hulls that have been reloaded over 5 times. I have had it happen with the Herter's hulls from Cabela's that were reloaded maybe once or twice. I don't know if I would have any problem in break action guns as my old Hunter Arms SxS accepts the hulls easily, but they don't drop in. My 1100, 870 and M37 sometimes won't eject them fully. The metal head clears the chamber but the hull gets stuck about 1/2 way out of the chamber. I have put new extractors and springs in the 1100 and 870, same issue. All 3 shotguns, cycle flawlessly with Remington RGL, Federal paper basewad and most curious Winchester hulls (because many folks say they are Cheddite) regardless of how many times all three brands have been reloaded. It doesn't matter what loads are used in the Cheddite and Herter's (I know these are most likely Cheddite hulls) hulls, target or full on hunting loads they don't cycle in those 3 shotguns. I'd say 50% of the time the hull hangs up half way out of the chamber. It's a real pain to clear them in the M37.

I know that heat will shrink plastic. I do have a nice paper hull iron and I am going to try using it to shrink the plastic on these hulls.

Has anyone else run into this problem? And if you have solved it, how did you solve it?

And yes, I need a solution, because the only hulls I have in abundance that work flawlessly are the current Winchester hulls. Maybe the new Federal hulls will play nicer, but at $24.00 a box for cheap game loads, that's not going to work.

Hey Mark , have had it happen randomly , and it doesn't seem to go away easily ... In Double guns , I know I've got 2 shots and then maybe do some wrestling ! OK . Now , pumps and Autos can be a problem . For Skeet shooting , I use the Chedds for the singles , but always an old AA etc for the 1st shot , then don't care if the 2nd shot sticks . For Bird hunting , I'd always want the 1st shot to be a good case . had too many times back in the day where a really nice flock was passing by !! More than one shot or even several was possible . (have old style AA's of all gauges stored , so I'll not have troubles in the rest of my life - hoarding can be a GOOD thing !)

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2180

16gaDavis,

I had to resort to the same thing because I loaded up the last of my Federal's and started using the Herter's. So Federal for the first shot, followed by a Herter's in my 1100 and M37.

I am almost out of Federal's so that is out of the question for next year. I pick up my empties, but sometimes you can't find them in the tall grass and cattails and these Federal's have seen better days and I won't use most them for hunting hulls.

I experimented with trimming Fed & Cheddite hulls if only to have them the same length as the Win AA, which I used to adjust the trimmer to it's size. I did find the hulls to grow a bit but not consistently, i.e. some grew every time, some never did, some grew then stopped. I used the hull trimmer from Creative Reloading. A bit pricey, but it works well and is very efficient...so long as the primer stays in the pocket, otherwise you end up with a curly-Q hull whose only use may be as a Christmas decoration. I have since stopped using it except for important loads only when necessary; hunting, match and match warmup. I will probably end up trimming any hulls that go into the A5 if they don't cycle.

My pile of split hulls is growing and I intend to trim them down to reload again at 2.5", which the trimmer can do easily. Just my way of stretching a buck.

I have experimented with heating hulls to get the mouths open and a bit smoother for reloading (mostly RGLs). The hulls did indeed shrink somewhat but I was not paying close attention to that part of the treatment.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1537 Location: Western WA

Mark, yes have definitely seen that problem and a host of others with reloaded Ched hulls. Because the crimps tolerate so many reloads it is tempting to keep reloading them. Then they stretch and fail in disturbing fashion. Worst is when nothing is found in the chamber after firing except the metal base and a half inch or so of plastic - what happened to the rest of it?

That’s why I discard them after 3-4 reloads. And to keep them properly ejecting I trim them all after 2 reloads. Rio hulls are almost as rugged as Feds and less costly, at least around here. But you must use Rio (or similar) primers with Rio hulls, otherwise they fall out.

V/R,
B.

I have found hull separation is largely dependent on powder used. Some powders scorch the hull interior causing tiny craters which thin the hull wall and subsequent stretching of the hull. PP and 572 were the worst offenders. I found this mostly in Herters purple and Activ hulls.

I've yet to have this happen with 700x, Longshot or Vectan AS which I use the most. With AS, some of my hulls have too many reloads to count...beyond 8, because I would mark the indentations on the base of the hull after each inspection and they keep appearing in the reload bin.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2180

I haven't had any hulls fail, like a hull shoot-off. I haven't noticed any that are stretching in length. These are definitely getting larger in diameter.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2180

I grabbed multi-fired Winchester 2 PC, Federal paper BW, Remington RGL, Herter's and green Cheddite hulls. Multi-fired can mean anything from 2 to 6 reloads, but no cracking or crisping in the crimp area.

These are fired hulls that are not reloaded. Average diameters.

The Winchester's measure about .727" - Easily have the most reloads on them.
The Remington's measure about .727" - 2 reloads
The Federals measure about .728" - 3 reloads
The Herter's measure about .729" - 1 reload one hull was .734"
The Cheddite's measure about .728" - 5 reloads - 2 out of 5 measured .735"

So this explains why not every hull doesn't eject all the way, not every one is too large in diameter. It seems that the hull must swell a bit on the initial firing, larger than what I have measured.

My apologies, I missed the fact that it was the diameter causing the issue.

I had it happen once on a new Cheddite hull with Blue Dot in my son's Citori hunter, but only one barrel. I attributed that to a higher pressure in a slightly smaller chamber. Once in a great while I had it happen with certain loads that I don't use anymore, I believe the powder was International in a well used Federal hull. But I never measured the hull diameter that I remember. I believe I also had it happen with PP in a Herters hull. My solution was an unintentional change in powder dictated only by supply.

Heating the hull might work and maybe cooling it in a chamber or similar cylinder to keep it appropriately sized.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 442

I posted some measurements similar to Mark's over at SGW. Herters seem larger after fired, start out larger diameter as new unfired shells than any of my other 6 new brands, and the plastic wall is thinner than all others.

I guess I haven't had much if any issue ejecting Herters after reloading in my Auto5, because I was full length resizing them when reloading them with my PW375. The shell holders are tight and fully support the hull during stuffing and crimping, so they're probably all skinnyfied again Wink

I will say that I have more crimp petals split on 1x fired herters than Feds or Rem, when loading steel loads. The hulls look perfect, but that cimp mouth is pretty weak and brittle. Wish they were better, I have the most of them.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 941

[Ii chime in for a minute. After I got my 525 32" 6 or 7 years ago I started shooting it regliously on trap games. After 2 to 4 rounds I began having the same problems that most of you been having. Basicly having the hull enter the chambers a little snug. Ejecting out not halfway and ending pulling the hull rest of the way out. Every once in a while hull separation. Every time I go to reload I tried to find the problem. Thinking I had the problem solved but after shooting I find nothing changed. After the years of this frustration I decided to set down and try to come up with a solution. This last summer I feel I made some success. Well here goes.

I measures dia, lgt, inside and out. I would load one hull and enter the ulhull into the chamber real slow to try to detect and understand the problem. I checked the base, resizing area. Before and after reloading. Different powders, primers, wads. Combinations of various hull, powders, primers trimming. But still the same. I set my reloads beside factory unfired shells. After scratching my noggin starring at the hulls side by side it appeared that the taper or roll at the crimp was just a shade different between reload and factory. I noticed the factory had a more taper to the rollover in the crimp. So I took the ones I've already reloaded and Lowder the final taper rollover. Intered it in the chamber and the shell fell all the way into the chamber the way its supposed to. I starred at it for a moment the decided to step outside and shoot it. Bang,broke open the gun and the hull flew over my shoulder. Now, Couldn't be that simple. Shot about 5 more and all went well. So I took a hundred to the next game night. All fell in chamber. All ejected as should. The remaining of the season went fine. Felt like I was shooting factories. The thing I noticed later is after another shooting or 3 that you probably will need to lower the final radius die just a little allowing for stretch.
Now this may not help anyone but it is something to ply with and be alert.
The beginning of trap games is coming up in a few weeks so I hope my findins keeps working out.
I'm typing from my phone so I hope the phone didn't change many words or spelling for me.
Anyway good luck for the new season Hammer Bill[/i]