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Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

Any one here knowledgable on these? I dont see any markings for date like 335 for march of 1935. Its serial number is 89xxx. It says on the flatsEprueve dufusilfini pression 850 kilos Fabrication mecanique cannon frette acierfin.
Each side of the flats has a rectangle around NORMAL. Left barrel is marked caliber16choke. Right barrel caliber16demichoke. Just forward of the flats each barrel is marked epreuve du canon,followed by some symbol then stetienne 17.2. Barrels measure out to about 27.5in.. POW stock,splinter front. Any help appreciated

Bore is 17.2 mm, which equals .677" Choke is Full in one barrel and Half (demi) in the other, which means Modified. Measured constrictions might be in the neighborhood of .036 and .018. Got a bore gauge? Check it out. Was there anything stamped onto the barrels or barrel flats to indicate the chamber lengths in millimeters -- like a 65 or 70?

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

Thanks Tony, no numbers like that. Did remember Skeetx taught me the magic marker way of doing it. If thats accurate, its 2 3/4. Is there any charts to ate it by seriall number?
The forearm removal is different than I've ever seen. There's a slotted screw about midpoint that you turn 1/4 turn left to remove. Dave will bring his boregauge when we shoot this week.

Joined: 12 May 2022 Posts: 17 Location: Texas & New Mexico

french guns are very hard to date from proof marks - it winds up being a sherlock holmes adventure. manufrance guns (or la manu, as the french call them) have some helpful tricks: prior to 1931, models were identified by one, or two digit numbers (no.3 or no.32), for one year, in 1931, they were marked with two model numbers (the old system, 1 or 2 digits, and the later system, marked with 3 digit model numbers.

model numbers are usually marked on the bottom plate, and often marked on the underside of the rib (under the forearm). "normal" on a la manu gun means standard chambers (in france 2.5"). other than special ordered guns, all were choked "demi" on the right and "choke" on the left...the french were choke crazy, demi is about 25 thou, and choke is 40 thou (or more)

robusts were the highest production guns in france - nearly a million were made. i can tell you your gun is late 1920's. they are strong, moderate weight, usually stocked with dimensions that are useful, and with excellent barrels (if they are original/not honed/dent free/fairly clean etc.).

i have owned several over the years and they are fine shooters - i'll quit here and direct you to a lengthy thread discussing your exact question...and there are many similiar threads there on doublegunshopbbs.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=645654&page=1

as we say - welcome to the rabbit hole of french shotguns.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 941

That text says

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1797 Location: Minnesota

A friend measured i's chokes at 32 and 37 thousandths yesterday. So much for the factory mod/full markings. It also turns out to have bore issues so its going back to the owner. Thanks for the responses.!

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 2011 Location: Maine

Unlike the Germans, the French did not date their guns. So, as noted upthread, the only way to get an approximate date is by the model number. The numbers that might appear to be serial numbers are usually process numbers, i.e., used to keep straight which parts belonged to which gun when making a batch of the same model.

It's too bad you have to send back the gun you had because of bore issues. That's something entirely too common in French guns. I attribute it to their cool-wet climate and corrosive primers. It hurts because they truly made fine, fine guns.

I presently have 2 French sxs, both with barrels by Jean Breuil. One, a 16 ga guild gun, is a real wand and it pastes pheasants. I've written here about it before. It was a GI bringback/send-home, liberated from a barn in Normandy in the summer of '44. More importantly, it was lovingly cared for since and the bores are gems.

The other is a more recent acquisition. It's a 12 ga made by the small maker Aime Maisonnial. Best estimate for the date is the second half of the 20s. The engraving is really Art Deco. Truly an excellent gun, bespoke in many ways. When I got it and took it for inspection by my friend the gunsmith, after he was done he said "this is a great gun" about 30 times. He took it to his mentor, who said it's about as good a boxlock as you'll find anywhere. All the internals numbered and highly polished. Interestingly it has both French and English proofmarks. It has excellent bores and it, too, pastes pheasants.

If you can get a French gun with good bores, you're making a good choice. The only drawback, if you can call it that, is they are almost universally 65 mm chambers. And, to get the handling, their barrels are struck lightly. Do not open the chambers to 70 mm (2 3/4).

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1489 Location: Mpls, MN.

The “Normal” stamp on the flats represents 2 1/2” chambers.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1537 Location: Western WA

Call it a delusion perhaps, but I have a soft spot for the 2 1/2” 16 ga guns. There’s a humbleness about them, and yet when called upon, they can deliver the goods.

V/R
B.

I concur with the 2.5" guns , they were designed to be as I call it Magic Wands.

If the barrel need a little cleaning up on the inside I wouldn't shy away from this gun , .003 will clean up what looks nasty in a barrel to most eyes .

Regards Nick