16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7

So I ended up with a bag of R16 wads, comparing old and new data is looks like I should be able to use the modern SP16 data that uses a 1/8in spacer and 7/8oz of shot with 700x but the load does not fill things anywhere close to full.

How could a SP16 wad with a 1/8in taller shot cup work with 7/8oz of shot by simply using a 1/8in thick 20ga felt wad and the R16 not work?

Anyone have data for 700x powder with a target load? I have Remington game, Winchester plastic cases and Federall cases, plus all the normal primers to try.

I know these wads are old but though I could use them for some target loads, as long as I figured out a safe load.

Thanks

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3526 Location: Illinois

FWIT---I always use a 20 gauge O/S card BEFORE starting the crimp.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2246 Location: Florida

Basically, the R16 is a 1 oz wad and the SP16 is a 1 1/8 oz wad. So, when using 2 3/4" hulls you either have to add fillers or trim your hulls.

The only true 7/8 oz wad is the DR16 which is not available at this time.

The SG16 wad works great for 7/8 oz loads in a 2 1/2" hull.

Without knowing the recipe you are using, it's possible it was originally built using larger shot, which takes up more volume than say #9 for the same weight. That's a guess. As mentioned, sometimes the hulls are shorter from the factory. RGLs are especially noted for that.

Some tips & precautions: If you are using felt wads you can just add another spacer. However, if you are using nitro cards or cork for filler, take care to avoid expanding the wad walls. That could significantly increase pressure and could actually cause the hull to be sucked up into the chamber...ask me how I know. I try to use 12mm cork or even 32 ga nitro cards (or fiber wads) in the R16 for filler. Cheerios, pinto beans, cocoa puffs, airsoft BBs are also choices for filler.

Lyman's 5th has the following for 7/8 oz with 700x:
Fed hull - 18gr - Fed209A - SP16 - 1/4" filler - 1305 fps - 10700 psi
RGL hull- 15.5gr - Rem209 - SP16 - 1/8" filler - 1241 fps - 10800 psi
Cheddite hull (or any straight walled euro hull, including newer Winchester) - 15.5gr - Win209 - SP16 - 1234 fps - 10600 psi

I would not hesitate to swap R16 for SP16. My last choice would be the Cheddite recipe, as the SP16 and straight wall hulls do not always keep the powder where it belongs. I would start with the RGL (Remington Game Load) recipe.

If that doesn't work, I would gladly take those R16's off your hands so you can make space for some good wads. Wink

Congrats on your first post, welcome to the forum!

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2545 Location: West MI

Welcome to your 1st post Fox.

Splitting hairs the R16 wad I'm comparing has a .845' deep shotcup and the SP16 a .980 shotcup. Difference being .135" also a felt filler compresses so not getting a true .125" fill. If you have something that equals ~.135" and doesn't compress that might solve your stack height dilemma. Maybe a .125 felt + thin 20ga OSC?

FWIW, I find 24ga felts and OSC's fit in 16ga wads better as fillers.

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7

Fillers to properly "Space" Loads -- It's Not Rocket Surgery

1) Find the proper diameter filler. That would be of the inside the shot cup of the plastic wad unit you're using, or the inside of the hull if no shot cup is being used.

2) Buy the fiber filler wad of the appropriate diameter -- the thicker the better for best economy, usually 1/2". (Circle Fly Wads, or old Alcan, Winchester, etc)

3) Simply divide the fiber filler wad into the appropriate thickness. Find the appropriate thickness by experimentation or observation of shot height in the shell. You can cut/divide a fiber filler wad with your thumbnail. You can also use a knife -- doesn't even need to be sharp -- if you want to make a whole batch with some precision.

4) Save all fiber wad fragments that are too short, and combine them in the proper amount when you have enough. No waste!

Cheers!
Tony

P.S. -- DO NOT put any fillers on top of your shot. All fillers belong below the shot. Did you ever see a factory load with a filler on top of the shot and under a pie crimp?

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7

Tough situation. You may want to consider buying a punch of the appropriate size and some cork sheets from Amazon. I did that for a while and banged out tons of cork cylinders for filler wads, pun intended. If you’re handy you could drill and tap the end, stick a threaded rod in it and mount it to a portable drill press or punch press.

You could also buy felt in bulk from Amazon. Hopefully they get up your way.

Joined: 03 Sep 2014 Posts: 409 Location: Rochester, MN

I know that some consider it unorthodox, but here is my solution to loading 16 gauge 7/8 oz target loads.

Cheddite or Federal hulls
Cheddite 209 primer
14.0 grains 700x powder
CB0100-16 wad
(3) dry pinto beans

I simply drop 3 pinto beans on top of the shot charge prior to pre-crimp.

The beans are cheap and easy to apply.

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7

Fox,

IIRC, I found the 28 ga cards and fiber wads just a little too big in diameter as the R16 wad petals are tapered, therefore thicker at the bottom. I believe I bought 32 gauge fiber wads and found those to be a better fit.

When I used the punch on cork, I believe it was a 12 mm.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SMMWG3X?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

You can try to measure and ensure you have the correct measurements. If you go the cork or fiber route, you may want to get a 28 ga drop tube to prevent the filler from sticking in the 16 ga tube and creating a huge mess. That works great on a MEC, not sure about a Lee.

Another option I have done is to drop the 28 ga nitro card(s) above the powder before the wad. It works well but you get a little bit of confetti when firing...I took some ribbing for that at first. The only problem I had was occasionally the card flops on edge instead of flat prohibiting the wad from going all the way down. I would not try this with cork.

Yet another option I've seen on here is to use the Styrofoam meat tray material under the shot, but you'd need a punch again, or you could wear your fingers out with scissors.

For that matter rice or popcorn on top of the shot works well. I've used popcorn a lot, up to 6 kernels. It takes time at first, but after putting it in a bowl just next to the reloader I got pretty good at grabbing the right amount...and it acts a bit like a spreader. The better quality popcorn is more uniform in my experience, making it easier to just count kernels rather than eyeballing every load. It's also cheaper than nitro cards or cork.

Most of my filler experience was gained through making 3/4 oz or 5/8 oz loads during the lean months of 16 ga components/powders we had recently. Many reloads, many different combinations. I've yet to try the pinto bean or cocoa puff route.

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1537 Location: Western WA

Having wrestled much with this problem before, I found the following:
1. Airsoft pellets are a good practical solution. Amazon has Biodegradable 6mm .25g Airsoft for $5.50 / 1000, no noticeable pattern degradation and easy to adjust crimp level, simply drop a few pellets in the wad under the lead shot for perfect crimp. O.20 g pellets are also available.
2. Breakfast cereal is poor filler, disassembling and inspection after crimp showed most compressed into dust particles and clumps.
3. Use the metal base of a 20 ga or 28 ga hull mounted on a drill to cut card stock or egg carton foam if you want card fillers.

Of course my preferred solution always is to trim the hulls to the correct length, but the aforementioned methods are quick and easy.

V/R
B.

Joined: 03 Apr 2022 Posts: 7