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Member Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 182 Location: Minnesota

Hi All from Iraq,

I am almost done here (3 months to go). I know nothing about SxS shotguns but my bride says she can squeeze 3 grand out of her fishing budget to get me a European shotgun for a coming home gift. Not sure how the hot rodders I mainly hunt with will react but I am seriously considering her offer. To prove my rookieness I do not know the difference between a boxlock and a sidelock. But, I have looked around the site in the $3000 range and all I find there are boxlocks.

I like what I see of the Bill Hanus AyA gun

Also, the Ugartechea guns, some much less than $3000

I am curious about the AOC/SG which is also a Ugartechea @ about $3000.

Any input would be appreciated. I will be in the air for a Valentine's Date with my fishing buddy in about 3 days and will check back as I can. Fin, please do not throw produce at my lack of knowledge or I'll sig my Lab on ya'.

As we say here, Many Tanks Cool

ed55

Things are heating up here and our boys are doing a stellar job. Keep them in your prayers.

3 k will buy you alot of options. Same old thread, new, used, brit, spanish,euro,american. Guessing a 16(but you could buy a 20 and just not tell anyone)

Member Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 182 Location: Minnesota

Drat, still don't know the bl vs sl. Too many options thing is challenging. Mary would go nutty if I gave her $3000 and told her to hit a bait shop. I guess if I keep looking I will learn more. What about the Winchesters? Any chance to score one of them in that range?

Thanks,
ed55

Nice Merkel 1620 for 3 k on the used market. Aretta(sp) 16's in that $ also used. the kimbers may be getting to that $ on the used. Ceaser Grunni(sp) is coming out with a few 16's(rumor) lots of parkers, smiths, and lots of guys with way more knowlege than me to advise, heck if you wanted to go bottom trolling you could get 16gauge guy to give you info on the sisitori(of course none of us would take you uplanding if you got one of lose) Wink

Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 185 Location: Boulder,Colorado

Ed, God Speed on your return ! I have handled the 16 ga. AOC/SG and talked at length with Jon Hollinger (a great guy and expert gun fitter) about these guns. I was very impressed with the over all quality and fit and finish of these guns. However, as much as I like 16 ga. guns, these Ugartechea built 16s just don't have the "feel" and "balance" that I need in an upland gun. I would recommend you look for an AyA 453 that weighs no more than 6 lb. 3 oz. instead These can be found new at Quality Arms quite frequently. They have a web site. The cat's pajamas of course is to go find a good British boxlock in 16 ga.; However these guns will mostly shoot only 2 1/2" shells and you need to really know what you're doing to avoid buying a gun with issues. Your bride certainly could not be expected to make such a purchase, however well intentioned her motives. (I myself am not yet qualified to make such a purchase.)
FWIW, IMHO, the sidelock guns look very cool, but the boxlocks are less expensive to build. How each actually works is a mystery to me, sort of like a computer!

Schmitty
Boulder, Colorado

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Don't buy into all this SXS stuff you will read here on this site.
You will spend needless somes of money on guns that won't even shoot
as good as Citoris. SXS's are way over rated by those of us that love them and none of that love is based upon performance. Laughing

Do yourself a favor and get a nice O/U Citori. A good solid sensible performer that will last for years and allow you to shoot any ammo/load combination available without worrying about pressures etc. Why you can even take full advantage of the versatility of the 16GA by having the ability to load from 3/4oz all the way up to 12GA perfomance loads to 1 1 /4oz. From my experience you really have to love the SXS to own them, because they certainly don't provide performance beyond, or even equal to, the O/U. 3grand will buy you a decent SXS, 3 grand will buy you a fantastic O/U, or even two middle of the road O/U's. Think long and hard about where and why you are looking to spend $$$$ on a SXS. Cuz it won't because they work better than anything else. Shocked

if you just must have a gun with the barrels on the wrong way, look at one of those FAIR's any of them but I prefer the 600 or the 900. for me more pointable, but thats subjective, so your gonna just have to touch alot to see what you want(thats tuff to take)

Hey soldier... I don't know the difference between a M1 and a M16. I guess the difference is 15.

A sidelock has the internal locking mechanisms outside the wood, under the lock plates. Lock plates are great places for extra engraving.

A boxlock has the lock mechanisms in the center of the action. Some boxlocks also have side plates. These are purely for decoration. Obviously, they are known as "Sideplated Boxlocks". Please don't ask which is stronger, because individual makers have their own distinct differences.

As far as which gun to get, just get out there and "feel" them all. Spanish guns, AYA, Ugartecha, Grulla are all nice. Merckel makes several great guns. Vintage American pieces can be had for what you want to spend. And don't discount the stack-barrel guns. Take your time and enjoy yourself.

Before you look at guns though, just come home safe, and don't watch the news. Most of us really appreciate what you're doing over there.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE RED WHITE AND BLUE!

Take a look at this link:
http://www.aya-fineguns.com/ingles/presentacion/precision.htm

The bottom picture shows the sidelocks removed with the mechs attached. I have had very little exposure to sidelocks, but apparently they can usually be tuned to a better trigger than box locks, but there are alot of different designs of both styles so that is a general statement. Boxlocks are reportably more reliable in the long haul, but sidelocks are easy to take off in order to replace a spring, even in th field.

There are excellent boxlocks out there, and they out number the sidelocks in volume by a good amount. Main reason is the manufacturing and fitting process envolved with each. It takes a gunsmith to create and tune a sidelock, or a very good boxlock. It takes a guy at a factory to make a boxlock. In the price you loking at there are entry level new sidelocks, like the Uggies, and plenty of good quality boxlocks.

Are there any features you gotta have? Single vs double trigger, stock style, fixed vs choke tubes, primary use (target disipline or game type) vs "all around", O/U vs SxS?? All these will help us get you closer to you goal..

(BTW for 3k you could have a citori 16ga AND a A-5 sweet sixteen, maybe have enough left over to get a Basic reloader)

Sorry, kinda got caught up reading the thread and missed some stuff in you origianl question. I that price range and in 16ga SxS, you are kinda limited to AyA boxlocks or ugartechea, if you want new. quality arms, fieldsport, lion country supply, and aspen outfitters are all good places to look around. Since it is a gift, you probably don't want any suprises, so I'd stick to neew with a warrenty. Especially since your not that experienced with SxS's. Here's The LCS website. http://www.doubleshotguns.com/ugartechea.htm

The grade IV is under 3K. For comparison, and if you are thinking of foolishly looking out side of the 16ga offerings, look at the Beretta SxS's. The 471 can be had new for under 3k.

I'm not saying you are not going to have aproblem with a new gun, but you will have recourse through a warrenty.

Conversely, you could look at some of the sauer 16ga doubles at Thad Scotts gun room. They are under $1000, so you would have buffer room for any work you may need in the future. Prusssian gun guy here on this board could probably helop out with the used german guns.

Plus you could use the extra "gift" money to take your outdoor minded wife on a vacation! "gee honey I'd love to have a 3000 dollar shotgun, but I only really need this $900 dollar gun, and think about how much we'd enjoy a week hunting/shooting and flyfishing??" Can't go wrong with that one!

Best of luck, and thank you for your service. Praying for your safe return..

Post thought: I've read lots of good personal reviews for the fair/verona guns, but the recent changes in the distributors make me leary.. Besides the price has fluctuated alot with these guns in the last few years, which is kinda strange. (more so than other euro guns, in my obsevations)

Member Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 98 Location: Ballwin, MO

Take a look at the DeHaan SGr custom gun. It is a boxlock(SxS or O/U) and for the budget you mentioned, you can get a quite nice gun. It is a custom gun, and will take 4-6 months to get, but it will be made to your specifications. If you aren't sure what you want, call Mark and talk to him(when you get back!). His customer service is excellent, as is the product. You can find them at www.dhshotguns.com

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

ed55: Prussian Gun Guy gave good advice. But a Beretta Silverhawk is a real nice sxs with choke tubes, well made and excellent balance. It is a boxlock and you can find them priced at just over $3,000. It will last a few lifetimes if well cared for. Whatever you do, finish your tour safely, come home to your family, and may you use your " homecoming" gun with joy and a long lifetime of well earned freedom.

ermadear55 - lots of good advice here. Probably need to spend a little time if possible handling the various guns. Unless you reload, it would be wise to buy a gun of recent vintage so you don't have to worry about pressure like you would in older guns. My 16 is a Merkel 1620 which is a delightful little gun. They can be had used for $3K and I have seen them new for $3.5K. A joy to carry and can handle any load.

Not that I am biased or anything. Laughing

Be careful out there because we want you back home whole and healthy.

Hc

God's speed on your return home. Take a look at the Grulla. I don't know who is importing them now, I had one made for me when I was in Spain. A 20 gauge with an additional 28 gauge barrel. Sweet, sweet upland gun and a 16 or 20 should be in your price range.