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Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-05-2007/0004560240&EDATE=

But no mention of future 16 gauge development. Crying or Very sad

Looks like The folks who bought it have global interests. However, what big investment company doesn't these days. Another domestic company has just bit the dust it appears. However, a blind man would have seen this one coming.

So now, how many truely domestic gun companies do we have left? Not many I think. I also wonder how good the new Remingtons made in China will be. And so it goes. We are seeing the end of an age.

It also raises the question. What happens to our military ordinance in the case of another widespread, global conflict?

Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Louisiana USA

From The Outdoor & Shooting Wires

Remington Arms Company, Inc. one of the nation's oldest continually-operating firearms companies, is being acquired by an affiliate of Cereberus Capital Management, L.P. The $370 million dollar acquisition includes the assumption of all of Remington Arms Company, Inc.'s liabilities and product lines.

Remington CEO Tommy Millner released a statement characterizing the transaction as "an acknowledgment of the Remington tradition, its strong brand, and the excellent products built over 191 years…"

The acquisition gives Cereberus two gun companies, Remington Arms and Bushmaster. Sources familiar with both companies say Remington will quickly add an AR-style rifle platform to complement their M24SWS Sniper Weapon System while Bushmaster will likely add signature branded ammunition and products.

Remington also includes a total line of shotshell, centerfire, rimfire and handgun ammunition and manufacturing under the Remington and UMC brands. For many years, Remington has remained the number one producer of both rifles and shotguns in the US domestic market.

Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC provided financing commitment and advisor services to Cereberus in the acquisition, expected to close in June 2007.

We will have complete details and reaction to the acquisition in the Friday, April 6, 2007 editions of The Outdoor and Shooting Wires.

Member Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 138 Location: Parma, OH

Don't worry about it guys. This simply gives Remington some R&D cash and maybe some capital to revamp/streamline their production facilities in the good ole USA so they don't have to outsource any more of their product line to Russia, Turkey, Spain, Italy, or any other potential "partner." Leave that to Browning/Winchester.....

In the 10 years I've worked for my current employer, we've been owned by Mannesman, Siemens, and are currently held by a private equity group that will probably dump us in 5 years. We still make the same stuff as we've been making, only we're working on more "intelligent" stuff for our product line. If you don't innovate, you stagnate. And you can't innovate w/o cash.....

In the corporate world, nobody "owns" anything....it's simply intellectual property... Very Happy

Besides, wasn't Remington/UMC owned by DuPont somewhere in it's former life?

Mike Doerner

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

A day late and dollar short as usual Embarassed

I never even heard rumors of them being for sale Shocked

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

In the current business world $370 million is chump change. So IMO the scary part is that the value of this company is so low. There are activist groups that could raise that kind of change to buy and shut down a company and make the factory into a homeless shelter.

Jeff

Whenever I cringe at news like this, I have to remind myself that I was born at the end of one age, the age of nationalism, and the beginning of another, the age of internationalism and global mobility. I was instilled with a very nationalistic view of the world, as were most of my peers. It thought me loyalty to my own people, but perhaps intolerance to others not so much like my people.

However, that age is over. We are moving into an age of less concrete national boundries. People are moving around the globe in search of a better life more than ever. Our day of isolationistic or nationalistic beliefs is over. To continue this view and teach it to our childern will retard their ability to adapt to this changing world.

Even though we are the last superpower on the planet, we cannot dictate our policies and our values to the world. All we can do is try to uphold good policies and values in how we behave. If we try to enforce our will with the sword, we will be torn down by a united front of resistance. However, if we put our best foot forward, and act in a fair, honest, brave, and consistant manner, we will lead those who would follow.

What we are seeing in the middle east and in other less advanced societies are the death throes of a dying set of values and beliefs. Those who have been in power within these societies are reacting to the forces of change in a terrified and violent manner. To become overly involved in this dance of death will ruin us too.

We need to step back and let these folks come to terms with their own problems and their own overly reactionary leaders. We also need to teach them that exporting their anger and fear in the form of terrorism will only bring more pain to them. We can only do this if we walk away from the trouble in their part of the world, and punish them quickly, sharply, and severely anytime they attempt to export that trouble to our shores, and our part of the world. We do not have to take up residence in their part of the world to do this.

We cannot be a positive force for good if we keep trying to force change upon these confused folks with more weapons and death on a daily basis inside their own borders. Instaed, we will become just as poisoned as they are by the hate and fear they are fomentintg for themselves. We will waste our strength and our resources in the effort, and will eventually have to accept the simple truth that it is not our place to do so in the first place. We can't teach a people blinded by fear, hatred, and rage to not hate and to not kill by becoming involved in the killing and the hatred ourselves.

We need to recognise more accurately our own place in this world and stop trying to be the world cop or policeman. We can't force the rest of the world to see it our way. However, we can lead by example. Living well is the best example there is. Everyone understands a warm house, a full belly, a healthy body, a sharp mind. Everyone with any sense wants these things for themselves and their children. If they come to realize they can't steal them, they will come to see they can earn them if we help make it possible.

Its the simple lesson of good for good and bad for bad that we all learned as children or should have. We seem to have forgotten how effective a lesson it is. I doubt there is a country or society on the planet that could teach this simple lesson better than us. We need to get back to living well and sharing the good life with our friends.

We will still have plenty of muscle to hit sharply at those who strike at us out of hate and fear. We still have the will and courage to do so. We do not need to constantly display it. We just need to see more clearly that it is a matter of when these follish, misguided folks do try to hurt us, than always being on guard around the entire globe trying to stifle their efforts. We will be bled dry this way. A sharp slap and a strong rebuke, followed by a helping hand when they act right has always been the right way. It is up to them to act right. It is up to us to give them the time and opportunity to learn. Constantly babysitting them will not do it.

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

16ggy your point is well taken and so very true. But to elaborater on a point a couple of topics above about Rem. selling out. I figured this was going to happen,question was how soon or quick.

I have worked for many medical device firms over the last 40 yrs. At the start of the World Trade Organization big corporations have sold out for billions to line their pockets with out a damn thought about the american worker. CEO make millions in a single year and not have any Idea what the hell their job is. Big expense accounts and big bullsh%# to go along with it.

The consumer pays the price of these companies that say they are running lean meanning they are running cheap. Products are cheap, wages have lost big over the last 15 yrs starting with Regan and the biggest lost to the american worker was with Slick Willie.

These Medical firms are 20 times smaller than the auto companies but profits are so staggering that it makes the largest Auto companies in Detroit look like the boy scouts.

There is so much Automation taking over that pays no vacation, overtime, medical benfits, and operate 24/7. And the best part is they pay no workmans comp. and no Social Security. No body makes up the loss for the tax revenue lost to automation except the peole left working by increasing taxes. This is why you will never see the government try to get down the medical cost. If that would happen then to many people would retire early and not pay into the system but would be taking out. The gov. has no vested interest to lower medical cost. And so on and so on. The problem has become that money overides integerity.

I realize full well what you say. American blue collar labor is a dissappearing class of people. We are becomiong a nation of haves and have nots. I also agree that the top echelon of american management is way over paid. they have become our aristocrats--the priviledged class.

I have no answer for this one. Money goes to money. Its been that way since the human race invented the concept of royalty and the priveledged class. It happens eventually to every society. We have tried equalitarian policies for some time now. We've had socialism, communism, federal democracy, social democracy, and constitutional monarcies in answer to the absolutional monarchies and the dictatorships these systems are meant to depose. Yet, in time, we always end up as a society of haves and have nots. It has not changed in thousands of years. So I guess as a species, we just like it this way.

Perhaps this globalism taking place will eventually level the playing field, but I doubt it. some folks are just too clever at gaining the upper hand in any society. Those that do live very well and get used to it. The rest just live day to day and get used to it too. and so it goes.

Gentlemen. Here we are on a forum where people talk about buying $3000.00 shotguns or more. And I see complaining about our country just because Remington was sold. Sometimes I wonder why I ever volunteered to go into the military. If you want to make a million dollars, go out and start a business. Figure out what you do best. Then work your ass off for 60 to 80 hours a week. Then give a bunch of people jobs. I don't know what country you live in, but I live in the greatest country that has ever been. Have not's are have not's for one reason. Themselves. Government is not going to do it for you. Yes we're not perfect, but damnit we're the best there is. Ask the young men that are still volunteering for the military.Well, I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

Member Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Tucson, AZ

What he said! Wink

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 23

I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I am a second shift machinist at Remington. First of all, I want to say I am proud the 16 gaugers support the blue collar worker and our great country.
I have heard rumors of a sale for years, so when I heard more Wednesday night, I just wrote them off. We had no advance knowlege of any sale, what-so-ever.
Remington was sold by one investment firm to another, so I see little if any change. Time will tell.
One thing I want to make very clear is we outsource none of our product line.
All of our mainstay products, the 700, 750, 7600, 870, 1100, 1187, and most of the .22 line are, and always have been made in Ilion, NY, the home of Remington.
All imported guns are add ons. Most companies now employ this practice. Lionel imports it's entry line metal locomotive from China. Red Wing now imports a cheaper boot from, you guessed it, China. These were companies that formerly where proud their products where entirely American made!

I supposed a global economy is the unavoidable wave of the future.
It's not doing me, or any of my 750 co-workers any good!

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Couple of points to make here.

A global economy is a good thing IMHO. Is it hurting the Blue Collar class, probably, because some of the Blue Collar class has priced themselves out of contention. This is especially true with many of the unionized positions in the U.S. Companies simply cannot afford to pay hourly rates of $30/HR+, full benefits and a lucrative pension plan when they can outsource it for a 1/10th of that cost.

Blue Collar workers, raise your hand if you'd be willing to take a pay and benefit cut to keep jobs in the U.S.?

You see, we've canabilized our own work force. Raising minimum wage for instance. Sure, it gets some people a higher yearly compensation package but it will then limit the number of people on staff. So, a few employees reap the benefit and a few take the fall and become unemployed. Its a vicious cycle.

The White Collar workers are becoming flooded with former Blue Collar workers. There simply is not sufficient supply of qualified White Collar employees out there right now and the job market is lowering its standards to meet its own internal demand.

I actually think upper management is getting more and more pressure on them to compete in this global market. While some of them may be overpaid, they're dealing with societal and corporate issues their predecessors never had to. They're working longer hours, need more education and have less resources to work with, all the while dealing with global competition and such things as Sarbaines Oxley, EEOC and Labor Union issues. Its not easy at the top either.

In reality, globalization is probably a good thing for the U.S. We've become very complacent with the "This is the best country ever!" mantra that was so prevalent for many years. Right now we're in a position where our dollar is valued LESS than many of our global counterparts and we are very, VERY slow to adjust and change our ways and business philosophies.

In regards to Remington, it was probably a long time coming. I partially blame ourselves on its demise but on the flip-side, I don't Remington has done anything remotely close to inovative in the last 20-30 years. Their flagship firearms are still the 870 Pump and the 1100 Semi. The 11-87 was a slight deviation from the 1100, but really nothing innovative. They also were essentially plastering their name on Baikal O/Us and haven't created a decent target gun since their 90-T and 3200 many moons ago. Even their rifles have followed a very vertical lineage. No real development or growth there. Other than their ammo, they became very complacent.

Someone mentioned that this will be good for Remington R&D and that the outsourcing can be left to companies like Browning. Sorry, but that is very "old school" thinking and will not move a company like Remington anywhere near the top. Browning has stayed in their position for several reasons. They created a partnership with Miroku to over QUALITY firearms at an affordable price. Which people rather buy? A Remington "Premier" or a Browning Citori? 11-87 or a Gold Hunter? Other than the 700 over the A-Bolt, I don't see where Remington has even come close to competing with Browning on any level. We won't even mention handguns.

I hope that Remington gets agressive in its designs much the way Benelli has with the SBE and Browning has with the Cynergy and Beretta has with its Silve Pigeons, etc... Simply plastering their logo on a cheap knockoff is not going to do it. They need to be very cognizant of that and understand what the American public wants. The baby-boomers are not the largest demographic anymore. The new generation of shooters wants innovation as well as design and flash. Marketing to that will be key to Remington's future success.

Member Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 138 Location: Parma, OH

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois