16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 76

When i worked at Gander Mtn in Middletown NY, i met a great number of customers were newly immigrated to this country. They were people who were both rich and not so rich. It was then that i realized, that those who could, from all over the world were coming here to live. Despite all the bad raps we get, this the country of choice.

Bruce

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Amen, B. Globalization sucks. I don't want to be pulled down to the rest of the "global" world level. If things are so damn good in other parts of the world, then why are so many people from these "paradises" making their way HERE as fast as they can?

We sure as heck CAN try to be the world's policeman---and we better, unless you want to be shooting Chinese shotguns and speaking Arabic. I'd rather be shooting them in their towns and cities than in ours.

Member Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 138 Location: Parma, OH

When I posted my thoughts on this matter, I was not judging what is taking place as good or bad, norr was I saying anything negative or derogatory about our nation. I was simply reporting on what I've observed and what I think is taking place. I'm not judging anything.

However, I can see by some responses that anytime anyone says anything about change, its automatically taken as a threat. What I do see here are failures to adapt to reality. What I am saying is that this country cannot contuinue to think it can have it all its own way. We cannot live in "splendid isolationism" in today's world. We can't continue to react to reality with a traditional responses based on what worked 50 or 100 years ago. Failure to adapt is what kills off living organisms and societies. Failure to make the right choices and the right responses is tatamount to suicide.

We have been responding to our latest challenges as if this were the post WWII era our fathers lived in. It is certainly not, militarily, socially, and economically. we need to think our way to a better solution for these challenges. Our old methods do not work anymore.

We defeated Japan in WWII, not because we were better warriors, but because we were not warriors at all. They were a nation of people led by a warrior class who blindly believed in their own 1000 year old traditional invincibility. The Japanese were suffering from "victory disease." We were a nation of independent thinkers who faced the challenge, rose to the occasion, came up with an innovative and workable solution, and overcame the problem.

However, I sometimes think we now suffer from the same "victory disease" as the former Japanese regime did. We seem to have learned very little from the tragedy of Vietnam. Sometimes, military might is just not enough. Any strength that is misused or misdirected is wasted energy.

Sometimes, not fighting is the right solution. Sometimes a quick stinging, devastating punch to the right chin at exactly the right time is the right answer, not a bar room brawl with "our side" against "their side."

In our present situation, I see no "their side". Their side is anything but united. It is no side at all. Left to their own devices, they will eagerly kill each other off as fast as they can. The middle east is an insane asylum. We are trying to teach lunatics bent on murder to be sane. However, if one of the lunatics desides to get crazy with us, a little judicious shock therapy works very well if applied right then to the right lunitic. Even in an asylum, everyone knows about shock therapy and does what they can to avoid it. In this case, locking the door on the asylum and walking away is probably the right response. We do not have to live there to apply the current when the time comes. We just need to be willing to hit the switch so to speak.

I may not know what will work, but I can certainly see what is not working. Continuing to respond the same old way and hoping for a better result just will not work. The same old response will not work for an entirely different situation either. New challanges need new solutions. We have been repeating many of our failures again and again for nearly 40 years now. I think its time we regroup and rethink our responses. Time to adapt and overcome. As it is, we are just wasting our time, our efforts, and our resourses without any real concrete gains. The status quo is a myth. Nothing stays the same. Change is the one constant we will always face. That we can count on. This is the true lesson of WWII.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

....And sometimes, you just need to kick ass and take names. We didn't start this, someone else did, on September 9, 2001. The only thing we did wrong in responding is, we responded like we didn't really take the whole issue seriously. Our fathers and grandfathers knew war was and is, by definition, immoral. But when they entered into it, they played to win, all the way, whatever it took.

Yeah, I saw that commercial in the 1960's too, where the little girl in the beautiful field of springlike flowers would "Like to buy the world a Coke"...and we did buy the rest of the world a Coke---they drank it---and then pissed it back all over us. Now, our responsibility is to look out for ourselves. The Middle East hasn't made a redeeming contribution to the rest of the world, besides petroleum, in about 2000 years. If they don't like us, they can lump us, because we're where the rest of the world turns to when things get tough and they need their asses bailed out. End of story. If you don't agree, fine; the beauty of that is, I don't really care.

There is nothing immoral about defending our right to live in peace with a proper and sufficient response to aggression or terror. However, choossing the right approach and technique is key.

In WWII we were fighting two enemies on two fronts, each one of them with enough military might to hit us very hard. Japan was a world class military power with more and better arms and technology than we did starting out. Same for Germany. We overcame the challange by fighting a holding action long enough to arm ourselves and hit them back harder than they could stand it. We also used their own weaknesses against them. They had plans too big for their abiliites. We let them stretch themselves too thin, then rolled them up when the time was right.

We are now fighting a stateless enemy supported by a few theocracies with a twisted self serving view of their own religion, but with no real power to resist a measured but sufficiently devastating response. These enemies we now face have no real military might. Their best weapon is deception and subtrafuge. They have drawn us into their sphere of influencea and now are controlling the conflict with hit and run tactics on ground of their own choosing. We can't win this one by staying too close in. We need to back off enough to get a good line on our enemy and hit from a distance with precisely measured, devastating strkes they can't avoid or repel.

If we were willing to hit at Damascus and Terhan in the way we are best at, without sending in the ground troops, and do it every time their agents strike at us, this conflict would be over inside of a year or so. They would go back to rhetoric and posturing with nothing to show for their arrogance but burned out buildings and a wrecked infrastructure, just like post Desert Storm Iraq. Our tactics then were both effective and economical by comparison to what we have acheived in the last 5 years of this misguided effort. Right now, these two agents of hate are paying no price at all for their involvement. they have been making a mess of Iraq and bleeding us dry. Time to back away, regroup, and hit back where it will do the most good. Then perhaps we could start dictating the peace, but not before.

If we continue on this path we are now on, we will lose. This is what Terhan and Damascus are both counting on. we are playing right into their hands.

Member Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 182 Location: Minnesota

Greetings From Iraq Gang

I am not sure what it takes to trip the "no politics" buzzer here but this is a very good thread. I clicked in here to get in on the Remington discussion because I just discovered their European, even worse Noodle Nipping SxS on thier site. I was going to ask for opinions on that but found all these. Lots of good points on both sides. After 40 months (this is my last one) here I must say 16gg makes some good points. I have said since I came here the only thing I was worried about with this war was we started too late. We should have blown Dumbasscuss off the map when they killed our 241 Marines in 1983. Since we didn't this nasty enemy has spread it's propoganda and built cells all over the world. I do think there is some merit in establishing a permanent pressence here in the middle east. There will always be some danger to our military people who serve on them. This enemy without a country is crazier than hell. The step back and blown the hell out of these creeps suggestion makes good sense to me. I have met many very good, hard working Iraqi civilians who want nothing to do with these Islamic Fanatics. I hope we can get them out of the way. I personally will be very happy to watch from the sidelines soon.
I enjoyed the economic discussions here too. I quit junior college after 2 semesters and drove a truck for 2 years, then bought one and ran it for 12 years. After that I became a life insurance agent for 16 years and did quite well and then became a state manager. The guy is right, the white collar crowd is short on people, especially people who will work hard. He is also right that it isn't all roses in management. With all the merging going on in the insurance industry I took a reduced retirement option because I thought if my company merged I might get less at 65. They told me they would never merge. They did 7 months after I retired. I ended up here because I was fortunate to luck out of the Vietnam War with a high lottery number. I put up one of the first Support Our Troops signs in our county on my hobby farm driveway and the 2nd at my agency. I looked at them every day for two months and decided the old guys had sent our young guys (and many gals this time) to war one time too many for this old fat boy to sit on the sidelines. So I applied to be a convoy driver for a military contractor and I'll be danged if they didn't think the old fat guy could still drive. It has been quite the experience and I know from what I have experienced here we need to figure out a way to do it better here. Our troops are doing a stellar job but the enemy is too unfair and evil to fight fair. They use surprise bombs, we should drop leaflets for the innocent to evac and show these madmen how a real bomb works. It is our right to protect ourselves and if the rest of the world benefits from stopping these animals it wouldn't be the first time America has done them a favor.

Thank you all of the fun and education I have had while here with this society. It was the best thing I found on the internet since my fishing buddy refused to send pictures of her on her pontoon in the lingerie I sent her. I sure hope I get to collect on some of these hunting offers. I told my son about them so he would force me to do it.
Peace Through Strength
Gary

PS: Maybe Remington should work for an arrangement like Browning did with Japan with whoever will do it and build some real 16s. Browning is a hell of a great company but they do not seem interested in getting serious about that. I love the Citori White Lightning I bought but it is a limited run gun. I think it would be inovative for some American company to REALLY bring back the 16 ga with the comeback birds have made in many areas of the country. Why not Remington??

This is probably a bad time to ask, but I would like some input on their new Italian built SxS even though they forgot to put a good gauge in the lineup. Rolling Eyes

You know this might not be a bad thing.
If the company has Bushmaster & Remington it may well end up a stronger company. Plus it appears they are committed to arms industry.

Member Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 182 Location: Minnesota

Hey Pezman

I agree with you on the commitment to guns. Far too many in corporate America are working against them. Far too many in the general public too. I think we need to support Remington and Ithaca too.

Government contracts Bushmaster has can add stability to Remington.
Yes we need to support domestic companies as much as we can.
Personally I feel Winchester is dead.
The American Legend can't be made in Asia.

Member Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 182 Location: Minnesota

Sadly I think you are right about Winchester. It is really a shame too. I have 2 Model 12s that are fantastic guns and I bought a Model 24 that I am anxious to get home and shoot. Guys I hunt with have the 2XS and 3XS guns and love them. But two of the dealers I know are not very optimistic about the legend living much longer. I do hope Remington stays in the game. Stability is a hard animal to corner in this global climate and the market has some pretty ruthless players. Many of us have brand loyalty in our blood. None of them do. Sad

The bright side I see is collecting older guns will always be fun.