16ga.com ~ View topic - Remington 16 ga on a 20ga frame. Lets make it happen.

I've been inspired by the response and support you guys gave me on the R16 wad deal. Now, while the iron is hot, lets all contact the Remington corporate web site and strongly suggest they build a 16 ga. gun on the LT-20 frame. I think that would be one sweet gun. I own an LT-20 autoloader. It is a wonderful gun to shoot and it handles beautifully. However, we should strees the point that their 16 ga on the 12 ga frame is overly heavy and defeats the purpose and the strongest point of a 16 for upland hunting,I.E carrying like a 20 and hitting like a 12. A nice light to carry gas auto would also reduce felt recoil, the 16's biggest weakness.

If all of us email our request to their wish list, then it could very well happen. We don't have a thing to lose but the opportunity that is right before us at this time. Lets go for it. I'll bet we get them to do it. What do you all think?

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Can you post an email address or link?

ditto 662's remark

rayb

*Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I agree that would be a nice weapon, but I doubt that Remington will go for it since they are already making the 1100 and 870 on the 12 gauge frame.

The Remington 11-48's built from 1954 to 1968 were built on a 20 gauge frame. When Remington introduced the 410 and 28 in the 11-48's in 1954 they made them on one frame size and they discovered that they could make the 16 on a 20 frame, so that is what they did. Model 11-48's built
before 1954 were on a 12 gauge frame.

Let me throw another idea into the pot.

I bought one of the Remington Sporting 28's when they first came out because I wanted a gas operated 28 gauge. To keep the weight down with the steel receiver, Remington put a very lightweight, skinny 25 inch barrel on the gun. I had one for two years and could never shoot it very well because of that skinny barrel.

Last year I picked up a Charles Daly semi-auto in 28 gauge. With an alloy receiver it has a standard 26 inch barrel and still weighs six pounds four ounces. I shoot it a lot better than I ever did the Remington.

Casey Clifford is the Marketing Manager for Charles Daly. He would be the one to contact about them building a 16. His information is as follows:

www.CharlesDaly.com
email:casey@CharlesDaly.com
Phone: 866-DalyGun (866-325-9486)

That's another idea. Having worked with people from the gun industry for a number of years, I can say that we will probably stand a better chance with a smaller company making a 16 than getting Remington to change their ways. The big companies want to wait and see what the markets are before they invest in them.

Just another idea.

Terry
________
BABI MAC

you can go on line with remington. Look under Remington on any good search engine. Then go to their site an ask your question or pose your suggestion under contact us.

As far as not standing a chance, with Remington, I say we have nothing to lose. Why steer away because of what they might do or usually do. If I had taken that tack, we would not have had the opportunity to get th R16 wads. I was persistant over a 5 year period and it happened. Fine, contact Charles Daly. but don't put all your eggs in one basket. Contact both and be persistant. What have you got to lose? If you don't ask for an LT-16, you will lose a good opportunity.

I contacted them right after I posted here. They will give me an answer. If it is not what I want to hear, I will ask again, and again, and again, until they get sick of it and start actually considering it. It is a good idea. We can make it a popular idea. Think what will happen if even only 50 people were persistant. We have that many folks right here. We have clout. We just need to use it. Why not?

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

There is a company that produces true 16 gauge pump guns on 16 gauge frames. Further, they will produce an Ultralightweight pump with an aluminum alloy frame to get the weight down. Hand checkered stocks of superb quality walnut as well. Did I mention the guns actions are all hand fitted? Everything done right here in the USA? Truly, these are boutique shotguns, things of beauty, and belonging to a different era.

Interested? Well, not enough people were, and Ithaca Gun LLC, is no more. All that and more was available from them (they cast a stock to the left for me on the big 12 I ordered, and put wood that didn't belong on a pump to boot) and nobody would put down the stuff Walmart is selling long enough to have a look. Remington no doubt took notice of everything Ithaca was doing, and penciled the notes in a business plan somewhere, with the words "do not attempt" or something similar.

The 16 Ultralightweight I bought from Ithaca is an incredible gun, beautiful, carryable, shootable. Who could imagine that in 2004 you could get a hand fitted pump, with great wood, in 16 gauge, with screw in chokes?

Or that one day, you wouldn't be able to. Sorry, but today, I don't need anything big green is building.
Best,
Ted

There are a thousand reasons not to do something. There is only one way to try. Just do it. If I had listened to all the gainsayers and people who cry in their beer, I would not have pulled off the R16 deal. It is as simple as going on line and typing in a few words to Remington. How hard is that?

Ithaca was a doomed enterprize from the start. It was over leveraged. There was not enough market share and profits for the amount the business had to pay back in interest. There are also a lot of light weight used 16 ga. model 37 guns on the rack for far cheaper that what they were asking for their new guns. They were bucking their own past products. sure, they were pretty and functional. They were also very expensive for a 70 year old design pump.

A 16ga. LT-16 gas auto is a new concept. There is nothing even close out there in size and weight. Plus, Remington is a big, well established company that is almost certainly not over-leveraged. its market share is entrenched, and it can afford to promote its products. If you are gonna compare Ted, don't mix apples and oranges. Besides, how would the effort hurt you? Why don't you pitch in? Are your typing pinkies sore? Laughing

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

No, my pinkies ain't sore-but, you missed the point. I don't need, or want anything they (big green) make. Most particularly, I want nothing to do with an autoloader, in any gauge. While we are at it, lets put the emphasis on a Remington autoloader. Not into autoloading, not into shiny, not into rolled squigglies in the side. I can shoot any of my pumps faster than you can shoot any autoloader. What, exactly, would be the point?
The further problem, one not recognized by most, it that the American firearms industry is, in their own words, "mature". They don't sell as many firearms, of all types, as they once did. Fewer and fewer people buy new guns every year. The people who drive what Remington produces are the distributors who sell the stuff, who like the big profit items, which translates into the stuff that cheapest for companies like Remington to produce, and sell to them-and whats cheapest to produce it what they are producing right now, and selling the most of.
I added an Ithaca 16 gauge pump to the safe when Zander's sports got out of the Ithaca line. Do you believe they made a ton of money on that gun? They didn't. It was close out priced, they had more into it than just about any other Ithaca product (since it was limited production) and they would sell fewer of them than the mainstream models. If the distributor ain't gonna make money on the product, and don't kid yourself, a distributor that sells 16 gauge anything is just being kind, they ain't gonna build it.
Remington is still smarting from the whole non-sense lawsuit of it's barrel failures. Don't expect them to do anything but the safe thing from now on.
What you might not get, or agree with, but, its true, is just how little sense a 16 gauge autoloader makes-when compared to a 20 gauge thats already in production. Don't just think of your end, think of the manufacturers end. 20 gauge ammunition is everywhere, in every kind of loading (including 3", but, I'm not sure why) and is cheap, to boot.
Don't get me wrong, I love a 16 gauge. But the folks who are gonna sell you one need to make money on it. It will be a higher end gun, more profitable for them, and you will need to pay more for it. Not everyone (the understatement of the decade) wants one. Sorry.
Best,
Ted

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

I, for one, would love to see an LT-16, and I'm not even into Remingtons. I can't see it being that difficult; they already have the frames, you just need to change the barrel, bolt, and carrier etc. I love my pumpguns, but I often chicken out, and hunt with one of my 391's. Now imagine a 16g 391 on a 20 frame, or a Benelli Monte Idea

I guess I'll start harassing big green for an LT-16 and STS casings.

Member Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 123 Location: Oregon

pumpgun, yes they already have the 20 gauge frames but they are built for a 3" chambered gun. Would there be a problem adapting it to the 2 3/4 inch 16 gauge?

Larry

Whatever Ted. To the rest of us who would like to see more 16 ga. stuff, It won't hurt to ask Remington about an LT-16. Besides, its fun to bug "Big Green" for stuff we'd like to have. Plus, the internet has made it so easy to ask, that not asking is kind of dumb if you have a yen.

Yup, a 391 16 ga. on a 20 frame would be nice. They don't have the frame yet, but, why not ask? It can't hurt. The same with a compression formed 16 ga. hull, it doesn't necessarily have to be a Premier or STS. It could be like the 12, 20, and 28ga game, sport, and/or Club shells--the "Black Beauties" and " Club Greenies" which are also compression formed and load nearly as well as the STS hulls( in fact, they are internally identical). Why not an 870 LT-16 pump? What would you like from Remington? It isn't even limited to Remington. I recently asked Fiocchi for some 7/8 oz. 16 ga. sport loads. Why not?

Don't let the gainsayers and the sob sisters step on your desires and dreams. I don't pay much attention to the "no can doers", and sometimes things go my way if I ask. Heck, if I'd paid attention to the Gloomy Gus types, I'd have never bought a 16 ga. Citori, and would not have found my ideal gun.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

Something tells me I missed something. Are you guys talking about the Beretta 391 auto? I thought you were refering to The Remington O/U which doesn't have a 20 ga. frame as of yet. OOPS! Embarassed

Now I got it. Yup, a Beretta 16 would be nice. I'd like them to do an O/U 16 on the 686 frame and on the 626 SxS frame too.

I got a resonse back from Remington yesterday about my request for an LT-16 auto. They replied that my input was valued, my request was one of many for the same idea, and that the more requests they get for this model, the better the chances are that they will build it. I'd say that is positive feedback.

The time is right for this idea of a small frame, light weight 16 gauge gas operated autoloader. Remington is very aware that Ithaca is gone. They are also aware that Browning has no desire to build any more "Sweet 16" Auto 5 guns or 16 ga. Citori models. Also, they are aware that pheasant have come back to the nation's corn and wheat belt very strongly and there is a big demand for the guns and ammo to hunt them. They have a free run at a completely open 16 gauge market here. Most importantly, they did not say it was technically impossible. The feeling I get is that they are going to count the chickens before hatching an egg. If we continually ask for it, it will happen.

The industry is also very much aware of us, the 16 gauge Society. This forum has sent ripples throughout the industry at exactly the right time. We are much more than a blip on the screen. We have jump started a trend that will continue to have clout, but only if we continue to make as much positive noise as possible. Like I keep saying, you have nothing to lose by asking for what you want. The manufacturers are listening. Make the request.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

16guy,

As I stated in the other thread about new 16 ga. stuff. I contacted and called Remington about ammo when we were trying the waters with that idea.
I was told plain out that they had no plans for new ammo coming out soon and were not planning any thing at this time for down the road.
If that's the case, I can't see them making any new guns.

I hope I am wrong and they listen. But I seriously doubt they will expand their line any time soon.