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DanielC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Location: California - East Bay

Hey guys,

I had a long time colleague ask me to take him shooting (his first time). Jumping at the chance, I prepared everything and took him to the club yesterday. After a demonstration of basic gun safety rules and technique, we started pulling clays.

I'm certainly no instructor, but when going through gun mount basics, he practically put his nose on the stock. Sure enough, he pointed his finger, closed each eye, and yep, right handed shooter with a dominant left eye.

He had a great time, and I really want to encourage him, but I also realize that if he's going to have any real success hitting clays, he's gonna need a little help from someone a bit more schooled than myself. He wants to go again in a few weeks, and of course, I agreed to take him.

What can I do for him, and what advice should I offer?

Thanks in advance for replies,

Daniel
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:24 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 2171
Location: Kansas High Plains

Saw just what he needs at a gun show yesterday; an English double (I think it was a Westley Richards but not sure) with a cross over stock! Gun mounted to the right shoulder but the stock was completely bent so the barrels lined up under the left eye. Supposedly built for a shooter who had lost an eye. I'd seen pictures of such guns but never had seen one in person before.

Seriously, good luck to your friend; hope someone here can offer some help.

_________________
I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

A shooting coach tried very hard to work with me (I suffer the same condition) and finally came to the conclusion I would need to shoot righthanded.

Well, I tried. But I can't. Along the way, I've picked up a few things. You can wink the dominant eye at the shot, which gives you better depth perception as you are mounting the gun. I've tried the spot of tape on the eyeglass lense, and it is just to big a distraction for me-others do quite well with that method, however.

I'll never be an olympic class shooter. I'm handicapped by the dominant eye. But, just like anyone else, practice makes me much, much better.

I think the friend will discover the same. Try getting him to shoot lefthanded. Try a spot of tape on the dominant eye's lense. Try winking the dominant eye just before the shot.

But do help him.

Best,
Ted
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Ga16ga
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:27 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Westfield, NC

Might have him try this - http://www.exploreproducts.com/easyhitshotgunshootingsight.htm

The fiber optic stick is in a tube, so that only the eye looking down the rib can see it. I tried another fiber optic site, but my left eye could see it. So it was basically the same as the front bead.

I'm not endorsing the product. Have only had mine for about a week and have not tried it in the field or on the range. I've read on the above link and other articles that this type of setup helps.

As Ted states, practice...
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JCMorella
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 25
Location: Somerset County, NJ

I , too, am a shooter who is all right handed, but left eye dominant. I have had very good success with a piece of cellophane tape, cut to the size of a dime, and then placed on the inside of my shooting glasses in such a position to allow me to see down the rib with only my right eye. I still have enough vision from the lower section of my glasses to pick up the birds out of the house, but once the target gets into my "shooting zone", only my right eye sees it. As Ted said, it takes tons on practice, but it has worked well enough for me to be a ATA "A" class shooter.

JCM
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k28ga
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Arnold, Mo.

i have the same condition, i shoot with both eyes open and i find that a standard minimal cast off or strait stock with 1/8" of toe out is the perfect fit, provided i shorten the stock about a half inch. i have a 37 in. sleeve length and shoot a 14 1/2 inch stock better than a 14 7/8 inch stock that should be a better fit. my skeet average/game is 24. many people i shoot with with try to tell me i shoot too short a lop, but i usually shoot better than they do, so try it, what do have to lose.

karl
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slimpickens
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Maryland

I am also left eye dominate, and have to close the left eye to see down the sight, just like shooting a rifle, and have always shot that way for over 40 years and done fine. If I try to open both eyes I can not aim down the rib and see teh target. To late to change things now.
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Terry Imai
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:21 am  Reply with quote
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DanielC,

As you indicated that your friend is a new shooter, IMO he should start correctly by shooting with his dominant eye over the rib. If it was a different situation where someone has been shooting for several years with this "cross dominance" problem, then I would possibly go with the above suggestions. However, since he is a brand new shooter, he does not have any habits to break either good or bad. The problem that most people don't really understand with your dominant eye is that your brain has been conditioned to point your either your left or right hand/finger based solely upon your dominant eye. If you try to point your finger or shotgun to your non-dominant eye, then you have to bring in additional conscious processes which takes additional time and generally poorer results. I was a cross dominant shooter since I was ten years old and was a good hunting shot for the next 30+ years because most hunting shots are generally the same. But when I took up Sporting Clays seriously, I discovered that the friendly course designers would build various optical illusions and establish break points that would take me out of my norm. I converted to shooting left handed three years ago, and the first 1 1/2 years were not pretty. All the people that I would beat on a regular basis were finally get the just dues. But in the last year or so, my scores are significantly higher and more consistant than they ever were when I shot right handed. In other words, I'm a big fan of learning the sport correctly and going from there.

Good luck with your friend,

Terry
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:46 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts

I agree with Terry. If this new guy has had little to no shooting experience, the left shoulder is the way to go. Yes it will feel very odd at first. No, it is not impossible. I am strongly left hand oriented, but my right eye is dominant. I learned to shoot instinctive style with a bow and arrow before I ever mounted a gun of any kind when I was 9-10 years old. I naturally shifted to the right side, because I could not hit any thing from the left side. Kids tend to do what is naturally the best thing. They have not been imprinted with conventional wisdom yet.

If this person is ever to enjoy wingshooting fully, two eyes is the best way. He will not only see the target more clearly, but will see it twice as quickly as he will with one eye. I've shot both ways, because I was a rifle shooter first. It took my nearly one year to get the hang of two eyed shooting. I would have been much better off if someone had been around to get me started right. There was'nt and it cost me. However, I'm also an A class trap shooter and a member of the 100 straight club. I doubt I would be without two eyes to see with. Plus, my doubles and skeet shooting is way better that it ever was with one eye. Start the individual out right-- from the left. good luck.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:50 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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Agree with Guy and Terry. I'm right handed, strongly left eyed. Had I known that when I started, I would have shot lefty from the get-go. Works pretty well for me to acquire the target with both eyes open, close the left as I mount. But you're bound to lose some depth perception that way. I'm pretty well stuck with that system. Your friend isn't. If he can shoot with his dominant eye, I'd definitely recommend that's the way he should start.
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harduck
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 14

There are a couple of products listed on billhanusbirdguns.com for right handed shooters with dominant left eyes. I don't have the problem (I'm just not a good shot) so don't know if these things are worth a darn.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:44 am  Reply with quote
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Larry, I'm sure you understand this matter fully, so i'm posting for the benefit of any new shooters out there. Winking at the target is how I was able to start the transition and I did it for about a month. But it still took me nearly a year to feel comfortable with two eyes. Until I was fully able to, I was aiming and not pointing my shotgun. I 3was not swinging it as quickly and precisely as I can with two eyes.. Yes I hit targets. However, in winking, the time it took for me to close my left eye and refocus my right cost me birds and targets I would very likely not miss today.

In all wing shooting, time is of the essense. Anything that slows the process costs us. We really see and shoot with our brains, mostly subconciously. Our hand/eye coordination is ingrained and part of our automotor sensory system. Letting in half the available visual data(light, objects, and movement) by closing one eye slows the process and our response time. That is the biggest handicap of one eyed shooting.

Some folks can make up for the handicap with their remarkable reflexes and coordination. Nora Ross (formally Martin) is one of the great one eyed trap shooters. However, she is a the tiny minority that numbers all of top shooters who can shoot great scores with one eye. Most one eyed shooters are doomed to mediocrity. all it takes is a little wind or a change of light and shadow and their shooting suffers.

I recently worked with a young shooter at our local trap and skeet club. He was shooting with one eye but only for a month or so. I got him to try two eyes. It took him about one week to make the change. However, his shooting soon showed remarkable progress in no time at all. He now regularly runs 50 to 75 straight clays and will be breaking 100 straights very soon. He told me that seeing the bird with two eyes is like they are flying in slow motion compared to with one eye. He is right. The difference is that dramatic.
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