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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario Canada

My father in law introduced me to the 16 gauge, pheasant hunting and bird dogs. I primarily hunt game birds alone or with my father in law. Once or twice a year my friends like to go the game preserves for some easy pheasants. My father in law has kept Labs and has had no problem bringing them to the preserves for me, him and all to use. I have made a point to everyone that he/she who owns the dog doesn’t pay for birds. Since the dog owner already has enough dog related expenses to make them pay for a portion of the birds is unfair. Up to this past season everything has been good.
Now that I have my own dogs and have started letting younger hunters (35 to 45 year olds) join in but they can’t seem to figure this deal out. My old stand by hunting partners are 50 to 70 year olds who would not think of having the dog owner pay for birds since they have no dogs of their own. I have hinted to the younger generation but they just don’t get it. Is this tradition reasonable or unreasonable? Let me know what you think.

Member Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 230 Location: SW Idaho

Traditions are only valid to those who are willing to honor them. Force others to follow (by edict) will only alienate them from you or hunting.

You cannot force people to have honor, you can only lead by example and hope they follow.

If it bothers you too much, then don't hunt with them. Don't invite them or bring them along. If they ask why you can explain to them that hunting to you is about traditions, respect and honorable people. Use the story you just told as an example, but not their shortcomings. If they figure it out, great, if they don't you shouldn't be hunting with them anyway. With that said, I would only do this latter route as a last resort.

Good luck.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

You decide who you invite and what the conditions are. You don't have to live up to any standard but your own. If this is a tradition of yours then I say keep it and if it bothers anyone....well, they don't have to come along.

That being said I have never run into this "tradition" before. I have dogs and have run them on preserves with plenty of other hunters and also hunted over others peoples dogs. Everyone has contributed thier share to cover the cost of birds whether or not they own dogs.

I own dogs cause I like them, that's enough of a reward. I don't expect others to underwrite my hobby by buying my birds.

Jeff

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

I'm not a preserve guy, but have walked that path just enough to know why it doesn't work for me. I'm not telling you what you should do, just that preserves aren't my cup of tea. That said, every time I was on one, everybody had a pooch.

The guys I hunt with (that is a small number, by the way) are all dog owners.

Glad I don't have the problem, anyway. Good luck resolving it.
Best,
Ted

Guest

Like the bumper sticker from the sixties, "Grass, gas or ass, nobody rides for free". The problem with alot of people regardless of their age is what it gets down to word, "class". I've seen rich people without it and people with a very humble existence demonstrate it on a daily basis. Class doesn't relate with the gun that you shoot or the vehicle that you drive to the field but it appears on how you conduct yourself and treat other people or the game while hunting. I've always maintained several private leases for hunting and fishing and have taken many people out as guests on hunting or fishing trips. Most people have either brought a nice lunch or dinner that we could enjoy our time or have provided a special invite to their own properties. In the past, I invited certain people even though I would rarely see them until either fishing or hunting season would come around. I am doing that less frequently as I am getting older. I don't know if I'm getting wiser or not putting up with less c**p over the years. I'm almost at a quid pro quo relationship with many of these people. I used to take one guy out several times a year to go hunting on my properties but I've stopped inviting him. He would catch salmon during the fall run and smoke them. Not once would he stop by my house to drop off a side for me. I'm kinda got irritated that I was paying for a lease, feeding my dogs and paying for all of the other things that go into hunting and this guy wouldn't make an effort of even thinking of me. My take is life is way too short and we don't have to put up with shooting a gun that won't shoot straight; an ugly dog; and hunting partners that we don't enjoy our time with. I say decide what standards that you want to adhere to and stick to your gun ....

Good luck

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

I have 2 dogs and hunt the preserves a fair amount here in NJ. If it's not for them, state stocked or gun club stocked there would be no pheasants. So I do what I have to so that I can enjoy myself.

Now to the question, I've asked many a people to hunt over my dogs and never expected anything from them. I pay my share of the birds as I would have to pay if I went by myself so I see no difference.
With that said, I do have a very good friend that hunts with me every weekend Nov thru March. He has no dog and I befriended him at another gun club we belonged to. I enjoy his company and he appreciates hunting over The Girls. He shows this all the time through things he does. It may be buying me lunch on the way home or the bottle or 2 of wine he drops off.
I would hunt with him if there was nothing but I guess he just has the class you speak of. Wink

Most of the guys I preserve hunt with have dogs, so we all split the bill. I have shot preserve birds with dogless guys, and split the bill. My perspective, I shoot birds cause of the dogs. I get to subsidize my bird bill by bringing nondog guys along. More guys , more trips, less $$ that I have to spend

Another catch phrase from the 60's was "Don't trust anyone over 30" -- now I think it should be "Don't trust anyone under 30" Lots, (not all) the kids I've met from the I-me generation would sell their grandparents for a buck. They seem to have the " You had me, so now you owe me mentality"

Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Denver, Colorado

Maybe I don't have any class, but I would be insulted if a friend expected/asked me to pay for his birds because he had dogs.

Owning, training and hunting over your own dogs does have its expenses, but most people choose to do it for the personal satisfaction alone. I think one would be taking advantage of the generosity of their hunting friends if the dog owner expected monetary compensation for bringing his dogs along. Besides, its not like your hunting buddies forced you to go out and buy dogs; you choose to do so on your own. It almost seems like such a dog owner is trying to capture a windfall for himself.

Seems to me that if you expect them to pay for the presence of your dogs, they have just as much right to expect you to leave the dogs at home. How would you feel if your hunting partners told you to leave your dogs at home? Also, if you were hunting wild birds (where there was no fee for the birds), would you expect your hunting friends to pay you a few bucks because you brought dogs? I think expecting such a payment would be consistent with paying for your preserve birds, but would be universally frowned upon.

In a similar circumstance while hunting wild birds, I once hunted with a dog owner who felt that any bird kicked up by his dog was his alone to shoot. All of his dogless hunting partners were expected to hold back on shooting birds flushed by his dog until he had filled his limit. His was the only dog in the group and it kicked up the 95% of birds we saw that day since dogs are so much better at finding birds than humans. It wasn't much fun hiking around with this guy while he got all the shots for most of the day and everyone else could only watch.

I guess my feeing is that it is great if a hunting partner has dogs, but having dogs shouldn't give them special priviledges above the other hunters (except for the dog's health/safety, etc.). In general, I don't think a person shouldn't expect their friends to compensate them for a hobby/sport/pastime they would be doing anyway.

Just my humble opinion.

--shinbone

I've never heard of this tradition before, but to each his own. I have a dog as do my friends, and it has never even occurred to me to not pay my share of the expenses because I own a dog.

I go once or twice a year to work my dog on certain issues and let him have some fun in a easy enviroment. Alot of times I invite people to do the shooting so I can concentrate on dog handling. I pay for all the birds because it was my idea and my dog and I are benefitting from all the contacts. We usually hunt very thick grouse cover so its fun to see the dog work in the open spaces at the preserve and helps us understand each other better. If I wanted to get paid to work my dog I would start guiding at the preserve. Which I wouldn't do for many reasons. I would suggest you hunt alone or explain your tradition to those you invite.

Guest

I believe the original posting is not so much related to shooting over their dog on preserves but doing what's fair is fair. Hunting is not a cheap sport whether you hunt on preserves or chase wild birds on either private or public property; there are still inherent costs involved. Some people enjoy inviting their dogless friends to hunt with them along with no expectation of their friends picking up the lunch, preserve bird or gas tabs. If the dog owner is content maintaining that situation where their hunting partner doesn't reciprocate at all during the invite or any other time during the year, that's okay. I'm just at a point at my life that I have a few close hunting friends and we have a relationship that no one feels that the other person "mooching" off the other. BTW, I would never take an invite from someone who tells me that I would have to walk along with them until they fill out their own bag before I could start shooting. If I invite someone hunting, I try to make sure I position them to get the majority of the shots and shoot backup for them. Once they get their limit, then I can concentrate on getting my remaining birds.

In my own situation, I have three friends that make a trip to SD each year with me. I have the only dog in the bunch. Greta does a great job quartering for the whole group, and everyone gets a chance to shoot, but they all understand that I get the most opportunities because, well, she's my dog. I can read her better than they can, and can get set up for the shot better as a result. Also, I almost always push, rather than block, because I don't like the idea of someone else trying to handle my dog. They also understand that we are there to hunt and shoot birds, and we rarely come up short of our limits.

We also have figured out that if everyone is a little mindful of what's going on, paying for gas, food, and beverages has a way of sorting itself out, with no one coming up short.

So, upland, you can add a poll to your title section.

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 602 Location: western pa

When inviting friends along,it is my preference to take care of the dog work first(flushing retrievers) and make back up and second shots on birds that the guys miss or don't hit solid.I'm not that great,but I hunt and shoot much more than they do.I look at it as bonus work for the dogs that I've been working and feeding all year. The dogs like it,my friends like it, so it's a win win situation as far as I'm concerned. I have yet to hear anything but compliments on my less-than-perfect K9's. It also gets me invited to deer drives that I also enjoy. And the fellas don't mind springing for lunch and a few beers after a bird hunt. I guess you just need to pick your friends as carefully as you pick your guns.