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Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Eagle, Mi

Lets get this one out of the way first. Gun is currently being checked and glass bedded professionally.
I can purchase locally Fiocci GT loads in the 2 3/4 inch lower pressure (sub 8000).
I will be getting a loader and will join the low pressure group but not right away.
I know the gun is chambered in 2 9/16.
Will it be ok to use the fiocci loads until I can start rolling my own?

Lumpy

Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Location: Lynchburg, VA

I think you'll be OK since you're having the head glass bedded. However, I wouldn't feed it a steady diet of 2-3/4" shells if for no other reason that the short chambers won't give you the greatest of patterns with 2-3/4" shells.
A suggestion---since the 'smith has the gun now, why don't you have the chambers lengthened to 2-3/4" ?

Have you been on the LCSCA site yet? Please check the FAQ section on the Home Page-lots of infro about shells and chamber lengthening. And I agree with Lax-lengthening the chamber will decrease recoil and possibly improve patterns
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/faqhome.html

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

"I think" , "will decrease recoil" and "possibly improve patterns" should give you time to pause to understand what you are actually doing.
Nothing you can do will reduce actual recoil which is only a function of the shot weight, velocity of the shot and weight of the gun. All the rest is termed 'felt' recoil and is entirely subjective.
Improving patterns is an art rather than a science and it is very difficult o prove one way or the other.
That's why all these gunsmith claims can be made with no fear of being disproved, they just can't be proved either.
Your shotgun was designed to use 2&9/16" ammunition. Shorter shells can be used with no problem. Now 3/16" of an inch may not seem like a lot to most people but to a shotshell it can increase pressures when fired. Why would you take the chance? Reducing the amount of metal in an older shotgun does not seem like a logical thing to me as it will reduce the margin of safety. The metal was put there for a reason.
The oft cited Sherman Bell testing was performed by an individual with no Academic credentials and is/was contested by me in a series of letters in the Double gun Digest.
The Brits may in fact do this but they then subject the gun to a Proof Test and so mark the gun. There are no regulations in the US governing increasing chanber lenght.
Best to leave the gun alone and purchase 2&1/2" low pressure shells for your gun.
But you can be subjective and do all of the above, you just will have no idea about how safe your gun is.-Dick

For a much more extensive discussion of the chamber length issue please see http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1983

Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Location: Lynchburg, VA

Dick, If you'll note, Lumpy obviously knows that those of us who use our Elsies recommend lower pressure shells in them, in part to protect the head of the stock as well as to avoid damage to the barrels (and our anatomy). The later 2-3/4" 16's have the same chamber wall thickness as the earlier 2-9/16" guns.
I have a 3" chambered 2E, but i'd never shoot 3" shells (even if I could find them), nor would I shoot "hot" 2-3/4" shells in it for the reasons cited above.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Location: Lynchburg, VA

Dave, I don't think I missed Dick's point------ I merely expressed my opinion that 1) lenghtening chambers is an economical and safe way to avoid having to restrict oneself to harder-to-find 2-1/2" hulls and/or factory low-pressure 2-1/2" shells, and 2) Lumpy didn't say when he was going to start reloading for the gun. I wasn't trying to be argumentative---- simply offering an alternative !
As a matter of fact, I just made arrangements with my 'smith to lengthen the chambers on a 1925 Ideal 20 that I purchased Saturday---something I have done with all my short-chambered LC's with no ill effects--- and I shoot them a lot with low pressure 2/3/4" shells and still have all my digits !
You and I both know that this is a never-ending discussion !!!!!!

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Eagle, Mi

really did not want to start a debate.
Bottom line yes I will be reloading in the future, Over the winter is when I will start.
My simple question is can I shoot the Fiocchi load which I am told is a lower pressure load until I get to the reloaders bench.
I am thinking maybe 4-5 boxes throught it at most.

Sure!

Guest

Lumpy the Fiocchi Dove and Game 1 ounce load was tested by Tom Armbrust at 7500 psi. Assuming a 10% increase in chamber pressure caused by the longer shell I think that this load will be well within the safe pressure limits of your LC and will be quite safe to shoot. I don't think the additonal 3/16th of an inch will cause any significant increase in preceived recoil either.

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Eagle, Mi

revdocdrew,

My elsie is down at Bill Hambidges as I type, Can't wait to get it back.

Lumpy

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Eagle, Mi

Dick ,

Thanks again for the input. It is this type of information that helps me decide either to step up the hand loading process or to wait till the winter months.. I understand that ultimately it is my gun, my decision.
I certainly wish the 2 1/2 inch loads were more readily available on the shelf and we would not be discussing this.

Lumpy

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Buy your short shells by the flat, from RST, and you'll not run out.
http://www.rstshells.com/shells-best.htm