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I was reading the December issue of Field & Stream and in it an author lists his choice of the best 50 shotguns. He also list a few of the "worst" shotguns ever made. He chose to list the Remington 870 16 gauge. He says that for a 16 to live up to its potential, it needs to be built on its own frame. I would have to agree. He goes on to say that Remington, in choosing to make a 16 on a 12 ga frame, made a gun that "carried like a heavy 12 gauge,hit like a wimpy one, and shot harder to find ammo" My feelings seem to agree with his but what I find interesting is he said it in print. Usually I don't put much stock in gun articles as they are usually favorable to what ever they are writting about. I seem to remember that the 870 16 gauge was gun of the year by Guns & Ammo writers. I always got the impression that writters never bit the hand that fed them. They always have soomething nice to say. I guess they can't afford to loose the advertising from any company. I know I bought one of the new 16 ga 1100's and I agree completely the author. I think it was one of the worst purchases I ever made, but then everyone has their own opinion.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

None of the guns he ripped on are in production anymore, so, nobody will get hurt feelings, or lose ad revenue over them. It's an old writer trick to make you think they are actually telling the truth. Very Happy

Notice he left off the original Smith and Wesson model 1000? Since the gun was a real turd, I wondered if it would make his list, but, then it occured to me that Smith and Wesson has a new autoloading shotgun coming out, and if folks confused the two, it might hurt sales and or/ad revenue-so, I wasn't surprised the model 1000 wasn't mentioned.
At least the Remington 870 and 1100 16s usually went bang when you pulled the trigger. Model 1000s usually don't. I've known a few Browning 2000s that fall into that catagory also, but, don't know if most of them are like that.
Best,
Ted

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

My 16g plain 28" 870 is an absolute pig. Rolling Eyes

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Is yours one of the new 16ga 870's or the older ones from the 1960-70's before they ceased production of the 16's the first time?

The reason I ask is because I have always thought that the older 870 and 1100's were not nearly as heavy as the new ones they made last year.

Yours looks like a lighter gun. What year is it?

KB

I handled one of the older 1100's with a fixed choke and it wasn't bad. I bought one of those new express 1100's and it weighed a ton. It did shoot though. Remington always said that the new ones were made just like the old ones but I can't believe it. The older one I handled had a slim barrel. Mine looked like they drilled a small hole in a peice of one inch bar stock. It would have made a nice boat anchor. Any way, my thoughts are still the same. You seldom get the straight story from gun writers.

I have no doubt that the author of the article and most of the people on this forum have never handled a 16ga Wingmaster made in the 50's thru the 70's. To lump the old 870's in with the current ones which were just discontinued last year is a huge mistake. My '52 vintage 28" plain barrel 16ga wingmaster weighs 6# 9oz. and has great balance and is lively and responsive. A friend's '66 vintage 26" vent rib 16ga weighs 6# 10oz and is also a very nice handling shotgun.

These older guns are a far cry from the 7 1/2# - 8# pigs that Remington made from '99 to '06. The newer ones have a 12ga outside diameter barrel with a 16ga bore. Kinda like looking at a piece of black iron gas pipe. They are very muzzle heavy and sluggish. Remington really screwed up and unfortunately a lot of people are assuming that all 16ga 870's, including the old ones were made like this. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I agree that the newer 16ga 870's, both the Wingmaster and Express, are one of the worst shotguns ever made, but I think the older 16ga Wingmasters are a very good shotgun. I also own a Winchester Mod 12 in 16ga. and I like the handling qualities of my old 870 better than the model 12. My Mod 12 16ga. is the most muzzle light shotgun of any type I have ever handled or shot with a 26" or 28" barrel.

I am sure the last two sentences will probably get what little is left of my boney old ass chewed right off Laughing

.

Dennis

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

I have two 870/16's and both are very nice SG's, not pigs at all.

One is a 1954 field grade and weighs just over 6 lbs. The other is a 1967 deluxe grade with the checkering on the fore piece and stock it weighs a little more than 6 1/2 lb. This is because the fore piece is larger than the 54's. Both are 28" modified tubes.

Both have very nice balance.

The 1954 is my favorite.

Awhile ago I saw an old Winchester autoloader for sale at a gunshop. Although I can't remember the model number, I have read about this gun too. Its interesting feature was that in order to cock the thing, you had to grab onto a knurled area on the barrel and shove the barrel back into the receiver- this process was apparently productive of lots of hunters shooting themselves accidentally while trying to load the gun. Shocked

I'd suggest that this gun would have to be ranked up in the "Worst Ever" list.

The worst in my book would have to be a Mosberg bolt action, this is one ugly SG. And it kicks worse than a Mule Exclamation

I read the same article and I thought the author was pretty honest (considering, many of his best guns will never be advertised in any magazine because they've been out of production for eons)

My ego got a boost because most of my guns are on his list. Notice however I didn't say I have most of the guns on his list (I wish Smile

). I admit not all of mine are 16ga (wish they were), But my Model 12s in 12ga and 20 are so nice; just need a 16. And my 31T, oh baby! Have a 11-48 in 28ga saving to train my daughter on (like zero recoil) and a 1187 waterfowl gun.

Regarding 870's: All I can say is my "older" 870's are not pigs, same for my 1100's

Next project is to weigh 'em all and post data on the other thread. All my guns are in Storage 'bout 1,000 miles away Sad

Happy Holidays

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 39 Location: nebraska

I passed on buying a very nice Model 12/16 last year for $250.00. Was kicking myself all year for letting that one slide thru my hands. Shocked

Then I found the 870/16 1954 for $100.00, made me feel a little better. Embarassed

I would agree the 870/16 swings and points better than the 12/16 Winchester in the heat of a fast and furious early morning Dove shoot. Cool

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

I had a 20 gauge model 12 that was a little "whippy" in the front.

But, you could load a bunch of rounds in the magazine, and pretty much cure that.

Then, you had a 12 gauge that hit like a 20! Very Happy

I don't think the article brought up the older 870s-just the recent guns. They might have their place, say, if a guy has had a shoulder operation and needs a gun that doesn't kick too much, but, I sure don't need a recent 870 16.

I think the Winchester autoloader was the model 1911-AKA "The Widowmaker".

Best,
Ted

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

As usual, Ted is full of it. I just this weekend came back from South Dakota where there are more roosters than I've ever seen in one place at one time in my life. I took with me my full choke, late 1950's vintage Winchester Model 12 and hammered pretty nearly everything I shot at, limited evry day, and shot some waterfowl with it using Bismuth to boot. The Model 12 is still the pump gun all others are compared to. Weight wasn't a factor, as I never held a pump gun that pointed as surely, fit me as well or operated as smoothly as a Model 12. There are other pump guns, and they do function, but we're getting way too hung up on this "weight" thing. If you own an 870 of ANY vintage and you point it correctly, it's gonna kill birds. Don't let people on this forum spoil your party ! Learn to shoot what you've got, take your kids hunting and respect the resource----you'll wind up a happy man.