16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

This may be long and rambling but I will tell it to the best of my ability.
My great grandfather died in the early 70’s and I barely remember him but my father was his favorite grandson. When he passed away his near do well son, Uncle K (the family idiot) took his guns even though they were promised to my dad.

Well Uncle K passed way and my father finally got the guns. My Dad, who is a hunter but not a gun guy, always said great grandpa maintained the few but good gun mantra. My father never mentioned anything about the guns to me until Uncle K passed on and he received them. My Dad picked up a Winchester Model 73 rifle in 44/40, a Winchester 94 late 40’s carbine in 30/30, a 12 gauge Winchester model 97 and a Savage Model 23 (I believe) in .22 LR. The Savage is really neat as it is a copy of the 1903 Springfield rifle. All are very cool and quality guns.

HOWEVER, when my Dad was showing me the weapons he was rather upset and said it is a shame about the “good shotgun”. I said, “What good shotgun?” My father said, “ The hammer 16 gauge double”. Dad related to me that his grandfather had a 16 gauge hammer double that he always referred to as his “good gun”. Through my Grandmother, Dad learned that Uncle K sold the gun for $1500 in 1979/1980. My father and Uncle K where not on speaking terms but Grandmother said Uncle K always bragged about the “good money” he got for the old double barrel.

I have only been in the gun market since 1984 or so. So for those of you have been around I ask, what kind of hammer 16 gauge double commanded that price at that time?

Based on great grand dads other guns, he didn’t have trash. My father has no idea what the brand was other then being a hammer 16 gauge double. He does vividly remember great granddad calling it his “good gun”.

Any thoughts?

BTW Uncle K owned only one gun, the ugliest 12 gauge straight pull bolt action Stevens with a plastic stock anyone ever saw.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Nothing can divide folks/family quicker than a death where ANY amount of money is involved Evil or Very Mad

My guess is it could be almost anything----whatever the seller and buyer agreed on pricewise--they both thought they were scamming the other I'm sure Shocked

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

Your right Hoashooter, nothing like a death in the family to bring out the best in everybody. Shocked

I'd suggest you go digging for photographs of your great-grand's house, hunting pictures, anything - it may be peeking out in the background and you could get some hints right from that...

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

I feel for you- look on the bright side at least you got something. My mothers father was a avid sportsman and had a browning a5 12 gauge, Savage 99.300 savage and his WWII 1911 .45 with shrapnel through the handle he carried in the south pacific. He hunted with my dad more than his own son (my uncle) and loaned him these firearms all the time. My grandfather died in 1973 my mom’s brother got all the hunting and fishing gear. My uncle died in 1987 and his son (my cousin) got all of the firearms. Well my mom died this year and she was the last of that family. After the funeral my Dad wrote my cousin and asked if we could have one of these firearms because I would like to own one of my grandfathers firearms- either the browning or the savage now nobody will talk to us. The ironic part is my cousin is a self proclaimed bible banging Christian

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

I did do some looking at old pictures. Found a couple of deer hunting pics, old, small, grainy, black and whites. They only show deer and Model 94's.

But over Christmas I will be at my Aunts house. She may have whats left of the photo albums. Never know!

Thanks

Sorry to hear about your delimma.

I'm no lawyer but this is exactly why we should all have a will. We should make sure that the promises we make and keep during our lives are also maintained after our deaths.

Good Luck

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

A will is a great idea, but, it can't guarantee anything if the parties are stubborn enough, and have enough money to throw at lawyers to argue about it. Several years ago I was dragged into court as a witness over such a fight-I signed as the witness on an elderly neighbors will. Well, most of it went the way old Norm wanted it to go.
For what it is worth, the guns didn't go that way. The heir who was suposed to get them had a domestic charge of some sort that the judge decided trumped the wishes expressed in the will.
Pictures might help, but, to know the "good gun" would likely take a chat with Grandpa or his hunting buddies, not likely possible today.
My Grandpa drove a taxi and trucks in NY city, and hated leaving the city. I was left a broken Elgin watch after he passed away. I suppose it taught me that you can't pick your family, so chose your friends very carefully.
By the way, every family has a scoundrel like your Uncle. Lament briefly, but, go on a wiser person.
Best,
Ted

It's too bad Uncle K sold a gun which meant something to your Dad; that was not a respectful thing to do. At least the other guns came your way so they can be appreciated properly.

Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 50 Location: john day, or

When dad passed away older brother saw to it that the will was followed: Mother was was the sole heir. Only minor squack I has was that mother gave away most of his handcarved decoys that I thought should have been divided between us boys (I was the 'keeper of the decoys' from about age 14, anchor lines, repainting).

Mother did give us his guns to divide as we wished.

Only gun I should have inherited that I did not was maternal gramdads Ithica SxS (turn of the century) that he gave to me. I was away at college and his youngest son took all the guns.

No scoundrals, just lack of communication, and I was to timid to ask.

Guest

Should I pass, my bro/guide/hunting pard gets all the guns. The only other shotgunners in the family are another brother and a newphew. He knows to get them each at least one of my favorites if they want them. The rest, he can keep, sell or otherwise distribute, however he sees fit. He's no dummie about guns or money, so I feel fine. Why him? Been a hell of guy, plus he takes other people shooting. I want shells going through my guns even when I can't be there to do it myself.

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

Here is the update.
No photo of the gun seems to exist. After some discussion my Dad seems to think it was a Winchester. He also used it one year with slugs for deer hunting. I ran all the possible names past Dad like Parker, LC Smith, Purdy!, and he seemed to think it was a Winchester.

So I did some research and Winchester did import about 10,000 English Hammer doubles in 10, 12 and 16 gauge from 1878 until ?. They were called Winchester 1879’s. All guns brought in were made by G.C. Bonehill, W.C. McEntree, Richard Redman, and W.C. Scott. All guns were made with damascus barrels.

Guns ranged in price and grade from a Match gun at $85 to a Class D at $40.

The Winchester Handbook by Madis says few records remain of these guns. I have never seen one, to the best of my knowledge.

Is my Dads memory correct? I think so on three accounts
1) The serial number of the Model 1873 in 44/40(mentioned in first post) is from the same time frame as the importation period of the 1879 shotgun. So if Great Granddad bought a good rifle and shotgun as a young man the combo seems logical.

2) In these parts of the Midwest, I think only something with the Winchester name on it could have commanded $1500 in 1979/1980. I think even a Purdy may have been viewed as just an old cheap gun, especially by Uncle K.

3) He’s my Dad and at this point if he says it was a Winchester it was.

16 crazy

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location: Wickenburg, AZ

Merz Antiques has a couple for sale--
http://www.leroymerz.com/catalog_C0_15_1.php
They have gone up a little!! Shocked

16crazy,

Here's one that Dewing's had at the Vintagers meet in September. Price was $9500.

Jeff

[img]

[/img]