16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  I shoot a Browning Superposed 16 gauge
skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:12 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 7283
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello All, Pictures have been sent to Dr. Dave, THANKS for assisting.
As said before the 16 gauge barrels are Cordy barrels. I think that the Superposed book has a chapter on Cordy barrels but I do not own the book, only what is said about the book on Google. I have a number of Superposed with extra Cordy barrels, A 20 with 28 and 410 barrels, a 12 with 20, 28 and 410 barrels, and the one you will see in the pictures that has 16 gauge barrels and since it was set up for Cordy barrels, I fitted sets of 20, 28 and 410 barrels to the frame also. Sure would like to get a set of 12 gauge barrels so that the one action would have 12, 16, 20, 28 and 410 barrels, NEAT!! but not yet.
Enjoy the day.
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dr. David Dabaco
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:54 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Lodi, CA

Here are the pics!!!!!









Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:54 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6530
Location: massachusetts

Well, there you go. One picture is worth a thousand words. So much for gainsayers and second guessers. Thanks for the pictures and the info on Cordy barrels Skeettx. I'd heard the name in passing many years ago, but had completely forgotten about them. As I remember, they predate the factory made 4 barrel skeet sets Browning offered at one time. They were probably the inspiration for them and were quite popular amongst skeet shooters before the advent of subgauge skeet tubes. Glad to see someone still has some and enjoys them. Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Highcountry
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:11 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 610
Location: Parker,CO,US

Cool gun, thanks for sharing the pics and info. Very Happy

_________________
Let's not forget our fighting men and women in foreign lands.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ckirk
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:29 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.

Skeettx and Dr. Dave,

Thanks for sharing the pictures. Pretty cool, indeed!

Your post inspired me to do a little digging and the following six paragraphs are a sidebar from Ned Schwing's book "The Browning Superposed" page 124.

Browning Multibarrel Sets and Triggers:
The Ernie Simmons and Les Freer Episode


In March 1952 Les Freer, an accomplished gunsmith and firearms mechanic, went to work for Ernie Simmons in Ernie’s well-known Kansas City workshop. Les had been called on by Ernie to help him solve a complex problem. Several months before, Ernie Simmons had contracted with Cordy & Sons, a Leige concern, to acquire one thousand sets of over and under barrels for the Browning Superposed 12, 20, and 28 gauge, as well as .410 bore. These barrels were in a rough state, all 28 inches long with excess constriction so they could be custom choked at a later date. Before Les arrived, Ernie had spent several weeks attempting to fit three pairs of barrels to a used Superposed 12 gauge frame. The effort was a total failure, and Simmons was committed to fitting one thousand sets of barrels to Superposed frames without a procedure for doing so. Browning’s service facility in St. Louis was not even equipped to do the job, sending its Superposed back to FN for proper fitting of new barrels. Ernie Simmons was ahead of his time, but he was convinced that skeet shooters all over the country would buy his guns fitted with multibarrel sets, if only it could be done.

Les Freer, with his considerable experience and ingenuity, was called upon to solve Ernie’s problem. Les approached the task through meticulous hand fitting, and investing large amounts of time in making the necessary jigs and fixtures to do the job. Les was skillfully assisted by Wylie Jewell and Wilbur Lewis. Together the three men devised a procedure manual, eliminating wasted time and enabling the operations to become standardized. After much trial and error, methods and procedures were established to complete the task in a timely manner that yielded a quality fit at a reasonable price.

One large problem that needed a solution was the operation of .410 barrels on 12 gauge frames. The fitting presented no special problems, but Browning’s inertia trigger would not function properly with .410 shells. The recoil was insufficient to set the device for the second shot. The solution lay in developing a different trigger system that would function for all gauges. Les completed three different mechanical triggers, and of those three, one was selected based on its simplicity of operation and lower cost of operation. As was the custom of the day, the patent number 2,711,042, was awarded to Ernie Simmons, Sr. Les converted all the original Superposed triggers fitted with .410 barrels. In some cases Superposed without small bore barrels were converted strictly so they would have the mechanical trigger rather than the inertia trigger.

So that Browning could examine his design, Les installed the third trigger design, which was more expensive but had more desirable features, in a frame furnished by Val Browning. After extensive testing, Val declined to pursue the matter further, but in 1972 Browning modified its Superposed guns with a mechanical trigger very similar in theory to the Freer design.

In the summer of 1954, after installing 224 barrels on 12 gauge Superposed guns, Ernie decided to fit 20, 28, .410 barrels to 20 gauge Superposed frames. Although the idea sounded easy, it was not. It required an entirely new fitting procedure because of the different dimensions of the 20 gauge frame. Like the original challenge, Les rose to the occasion and accomplished the assignment.

In 1957 Les Freer left Simmons to take over the operation of the Central Gun Shop in Fort Scott, Kansas. During his stay at Simmons, Les fitted 664 barrels to Superposed guns and performed several hundred trigger conversions. Eventually Simmons sold all of his one thousand pairs of barrels and many are still in use today thanks to the quality job executed by Les Freer.
(I bet SkeetTx will vouch for that last statement!)

Schwing's sidebar does not specifically mention the 16 gauge; however, it does provide an interesting history of the Cordy barrels. I hope it provides some insights to the questions you may have about Cordy barrels.

Cheers,

Chris

_________________
"I am just a duck hunter and should not be held strictly accountable for all of my actions between October first and freeze-up." --Gordon MacQuarrie, 1935
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dr. David Dabaco
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:21 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Lodi, CA

ckirk -Great post! Wow! The plot thickens...

I remember once seeing a 16 ga. Superposed for sale. However, after talking to the experts I believed the listing to be a typo. Now, I am not so sure...

Skeettx --I don't think you realize how special that gun is of yours. These pictures are the first I have seen that confirms some kind of 16 ga. Superposed exists. Before this, many thought the 16 ga. Superposed was just hearsay. After reading ckirk's post, I can't help but wonder (dream?) if any of those 16 ga. barrels made it on to a 20 ga. Superposed frame...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:50 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 7283
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello again,
All I can tell you is the gun seems to fit me and shoot wonderfully, In October of 2007, I shot a 75 straight with it at skeet :>) Of course I was sooooo nervous on round 4 that I missed High House ONE single :<(
OH Well, that is life.

I really enjoy the gun and sometimes use it with the sub gauge Cordy barrels. I have never heard of a Superposed 16 gauge on 20 gauge receiver, but then I did not ever hear of one on a 12 gauge receiver either till this one came into my life.
Enjoy the day, Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:47 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6530
Location: massachusetts

about the closest you will come is the 16 ga Citori. it's built on a slightly modified 20 ga frame. Rumor has it Val Browning had FN slightly widen the side walls of the FN small frame so the block could be widened by .050" to accomodate two 16 gauge chambers. That is exactly what Miroku did to create their version. The blocks of both guns are tall enough as is. So the rumor is probably true. Somewhere there is at least one small frame 16 ga. FN gun built as a custom or a concept gun for Val.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Researcher
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 497
Location: WA/AK

There is a picture of Val Browning's prototype 16-gauge Superposed on the bottom of page 43 of Ned Schwing's Browning Superposed book. The gun is said to be in the museum in Ogden.

_________________
Share the knowledge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
XVI'er
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:52 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 972
Location: Keller,TX

It would be rarer still if it was a prototype made at the factory. Smile

_________________
The joys of shooting a 16 bore are only realized when you do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodcock1
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Michigan

If memory serves me correctly you can order a NEW superposed in 16 gauge from the custom shop at Browning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
16'er
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:03 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 828
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

Thread resurrection:

If you have a kidney you're not using, you could get one for yourself!

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/shotguns-16-gauge/browning-exhibition-presentation-upgrade-20-gauge-with-extra-set-of-16-gauge-barrels.cfm?gun_id=100907435

You can even shoot 20ga, for when you can't find 16ga shells! Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tdnathens
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:58 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Kentucky

$29,000 is a lot for any gun. The new 16ga Superposed the Browning custom shop has was $50,000 the last time I saw a price list
Tom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:27 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6530
Location: massachusetts

[quote="16'er"]Thread resurrection:

If you have a kidney you're not using, you could get one for yourself!

From the seller's posting, "I AM A REASONABLE MAN - NOT OFFECNDED BY REANABLE OFFERS."

Reanable or renal? I'm not sure if the guy wants a new kidney for his gun or not. You might be on the right track here 16'er. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cass
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 62

$29K...and it comes with a free 20ga barrel set.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 2 of 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09