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| < 16ga. Guns Wanted or For Sale ~ WTS Winchester Model 12 |
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 Posted:
Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.
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| Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.
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| bump. |
_________________
"I am just a duck hunter and should not be held strictly accountable for all of my actions between October first and freeze-up." --Gordon MacQuarrie, 1935 |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:44 am
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Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Martinsburg WV.
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| Has this gun been refinished, if not that is in excellent shape |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:01 am
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Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.
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I am the second owner of the gun and the previous owner tells me the gun has the original finish. It is in really great shape. I bought it from a friend of the family for my wife to shot. Recently, my wife has taken up shooting my Citori in 16 ga. Now she wants an O/U of her own. I'd like to keep the old girl (the Model 12, that is) but I need to maintain matrimonial harmony. 
Regards,
Chris |
_________________
"I am just a duck hunter and should not be held strictly accountable for all of my actions between October first and freeze-up." --Gordon MacQuarrie, 1935 |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:18 am
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I believe that the gun has been refinished. Look closely at the pic of the ejection port. the front edge of the opening has been machined forward in a slight radius to help in ejecting the longer 2 3/4" shells that this gun wasn't designed for. Side by side comparison with an unaltered gun will easily show the difference. This was commonly done on the early 2 9/16" chamber guns. The gun was then reblued as no bare steel shows in the pic. I suspect that this is why you recieved no answers to your original post.
Later guns chambered for the 2 3/4" shell had the port lengthened at manufacture. The radius of the lower RH corner of the port on the 2 9/16" guns is approx 1/4", on later guns this radius is approx 3/8".
Here's a pic of an unaltered #1912 (year 1919) 16ga for comparisin. Note the difference in the forward edge of the ejection port.
Compare
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There's just something about the desert----E. Abbey |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:04 pm
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Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Martinsburg WV.
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| I didn't see that when I looked the first time, It does appear that someone opened up the receiver. Still a nice looker!! I personal would just have shot shorter shells, my opinion only). |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:31 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 161
Location: New Mexico
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| It could quite likely have been modified when the recoil pad was installed. Pachmayr started producing the Whiteline pads 1932 (although he was embroiled with a patent dispute with Mershon through the 30's). My guess is that it may have been "tuned up" sometime after the 2 3/4" shell became dominant. I also agree that it has been refinished. |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:28 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.
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Walt,
Wow, thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed the outletted opening before, but your side by side comparison clearly shows a difference. I didn't intend to mislead. It was shear ignorance on my part. I bought this gun and others as part of an estate sale from a family friend. The estate representative (a son) claimed all guns to be in original condition except for recoils pads being added. Thanks again for the lesson.
As for whether the M12 has been reblued, I obviously can't say for sure. I did inspect the area that has been machined and it does not have blueing on the outletted area. The machined portion is dark gray and worn from age, but I didn't see any trace of blueing on the surface. If you look closely at the picture provided you can see a line in the lower radius where the blueing stops. But the gun has clearly been altered and is no longer in original condition.
Sorry to all for the misrepresentation.
Regards,
Chris |
Last edited by ckirk on Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
"I am just a duck hunter and should not be held strictly accountable for all of my actions between October first and freeze-up." --Gordon MacQuarrie, 1935 |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:37 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Michigan's U.P., eh.
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JAE16's post reminded me of something...
I hate to admit it, but since I have already displayed my ignorance when it comes to Model 12's, here goes. After I purchased the gun, I bought a flat of short shells specifically for the M12. I still have 4 boxes left. I guess I'll try 2 3/4" shells to see if they eject without a problem. The good news is my ammo options may have just expanded. |
_________________
"I am just a duck hunter and should not be held strictly accountable for all of my actions between October first and freeze-up." --Gordon MacQuarrie, 1935 |
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:39 pm
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
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| ckirk wrote: |
Walt,
Wow, thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed the outletted opening before, but your side by side comparison clearly shows a difference. I didn't intend to mislead. It was shear ignorance on my part. I bought this gun and others as part of an estate sale from a family friend. The estate representative (a son) claimed all guns to be in original condition except for recoils pads being added. Thanks again for the lesson.
As for whether the M12 has been reblued, I obviously can't say for sure. I did inspect the area that has been machined and it does not have blueing on the outletted area. The machined portion is dark gray and worn from age, but I didn't see any trace of blueing on the surface. If you look closely at the picture provided you can see a line in the lower radius where the blueing stops. But the gun has clearly been altered and is no longer in original condition.
Sorry to all for the misrepresentation.
Regards,
Chris
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No need to apologize, I didn't take your first post as an attempt to mislead anyone. The sad fact is that where it comes to model 12s, especially older ones there is a lot of misrepresentation both accidental and on purpose. I saw this as a perfect way to illustrate with pictures just one of the things a model 12/1912 potential buyer should be aware of.
Many times these older 2 9/16" chamber guns were sent back to the factory for modification. These guns were usually then restamped with 2 3/4 near the serial number.
When you get into the higher grade model 12s you really have to be careful because the money some of these guns bring can cause the most upright dealers to bend the truth a little. |
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There's just something about the desert----E. Abbey |
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| Posted:
Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:55 pm
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| I might be interested-what is your bottom line price, in view of the possible alterations and refinishing-and shipping and FFL paperwork costs? PG |
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