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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Herb Parsons |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:19 am
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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Went to Wanamacher Gun Show in Tulsa over the weekend. Had sensory overload! More Guns and doo-dads than I could see in the course of two days. But the fun part for me was meeting one Herb Parsons Son, and buying their book, that honors their father. The book came with the video "showman shooter." Wathed it last night (filmed in 1954)
He was one of the last exibition shooters- worked for Western-Winchester for 20+ years, great shooter. the final trick on the video he'd throw 7 clays in the air and blast them all before they hit the ground, with a pump no less!
And his signiture phrase, "Take your boy hunting, so you never have to go hunting for your boy," is something that I believe still holds a lot of truth.
Anyway, great gun show, and a few great purchases.
ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:39 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Nordern MN
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I think Herb was a great role model for most of the folks on this website. I'm from the next generation and we got Ted Nugent! haha. Herb's quote about taking your boy or girl hunting gets ripped off a lot and he never gets proper citation.
Last week I ordered a DVD from their website that has Showman Shooter and footage of Ad and Plinky Topperwien. Can't wait to get it!
Please, tell us more about the book! I presume there are lots of neat pics?
Thanks,
NR |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:36 pm
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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The book is oversized softcover, full of pics, letters, remembrences, etc.
Even a letter admonishing Herb about his excessive business expenses. One telling him not to go out of his district to shoot at competiions. The DVD was included with the book and of course it was signed by both of the brothers.
Pretty nice book, feels like your looking through the family photo album, or going through Parson's desk--albeit with permission. If you want a copy I'll get the information for you.
Meeting Lynn Parsons was a thrill. I love going to gun shows, you never know who, or what you might see.
Ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:17 pm
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Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1943
Location: Lowcountry Ga.
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I haven’t thought of Herb Parsons in years. Thanks for jumpstarting the memories.
Here’s a clip of him shooting seven clays with seven shots from his M12.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUjAFtSzebI
Several years ago I was at an alumni meeting and was speaking to a woman and had one of those 5 degrees from Kevin Bacon moments regarding the legendary Lucky McDaniel, another top shooter from the Parsons era. Don’t ask me how his name came up, but she was Lucky’s daughter. She was astounded that I knew who her father was. Lucky was an instructor rather than a factory shooter. In 1969 while at Fort Polk during basic training, I learned his technique of instinct shooting with a sightless daisy BB gun. We started out shooting half-dollar sized disks and worked our way down to where we could hit 2-3 out of 10 bb’s thrown from several feet away. I think his technique was used by the army for a half dozen years. In addition to the Army, his technique was taught to thousands of law enforcement as well as recreational shooters.
Gil |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:35 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 266
Location: Illinois-NE
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Sounds like a great purchase. The book WITH the DVD. I have seen the video for sale on VHS in Shotgun Sports but was waiting for DVD. Sounds like it's now available. I'll have to look into getting a copy! Thanks!
JT |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:03 am
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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Gil-
I read Lucky's book about a month ago. Now I'm teaching my son his technique.
Neat meeting his daughter. The world is a lot smaller than people realize.
ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:32 am
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311
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Ash Goodwin wrote: |
He was one of the last exibition shooters- worked for Western-Winchester for 20+ years, great shooter.
ash
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I wonder what Tom Knapp and Patrick Flanigan would think about that statement!
I once read, I believe in the Brister book, that Parsons held the trigger back on his model 12 and "pumped like hell".
Knapp has broken 8 hand thrown clays with a Benelli Nova pump.
Knapp;s videos are quite entertaining to watch too. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:24 am
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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Knapp actually has a letter to the sons in the book. Maybe I should have said "showman shooter." Its not just the shooting that made Parsons great, he was an entertainer. Modern times have changed the world of the exebition shooter.
Parsons' spent weeks and months on the road shooting 180+ gigs a year, sometimes two shows a day, in seperate locations. While still having to manage his accounts with Western-Winchester in his region.
Compairing Parsons to Knapp, or Annie Oakly, or Wild Bill is not really fair. Different Firearm technologies, ammunition, powder, wad, etc. But yeah, its cool to watch Knapp bust clays.
I was reading last night about A.H. Fox, and his two + years on the live and clay pigeon circuit. When a bet was made that he couldn't bust 43 out of 50 thrown pairs. A huge challenge at the turn of the century-it hadn't been done. He ran all 50, supposedly a first in the world. Then he went 26 for 100 at a shoot (now thats my kind of shooting) Now look at the scores at the grand national in the last 10 yrs, I think the world has changed.
Not to impugn Knapp or any other shooter. I just think the times have changed. When I was a kid and the circus came to town it was a huge deal, now it may not even get on the local news.
ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:29 am
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Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1620
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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I saw Herb Parsons break 7 hand-thrown clays at Mathers Gun Club in Springfield, Il in the early 1950's. I was too far away to see if he pulled the trigger on each shot. I always wondered if he held the trigger back each time he pumped the gun. Someone in the crowd asked Herb why he used the pump instead of a semi-automatic shotgun. Herb's response was something like, "Because I'd have to wait for the automatic to cycle!" |
_________________ BarkeyVA |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:40 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 31
Location: West Valley Utah
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clayflingythingy wrote: |
Ash Goodwin wrote: |
He was one of the last exibition shooters- worked for Western-Winchester for 20+ years, great shooter.
ash
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I wonder what Tom Knapp and Patrick Flanigan would think about that statement!
I once read, I believe in the Brister book, that Parsons held the trigger back on his model 12 and "pumped like hell".
Knapp has broken 8 hand thrown clays with a Benelli Nova pump.
Knapp;s videos are quite entertaining to watch too.
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Im going to have to jump in here. Seems to me that this contrversy has been going on for a long time. I believe back in th late 60's or early 70's, film of Herb was analyzed and showed that that he definatly pulled the trigger each time he fired. If your ever tried to "slam fire" a Model 12 and hit multiple flying targets, you'll know how much harder it is to do than you would think. I think people thought he slam fired because they could not envision his speed and coordination.
Even Knapp had to admit "But remember, Herb Parsons only shot seven because the factory-issue Winchester he used -- a Model 12 -- only held seven shots," Knapp said. "Who knows what he could have done" -- Knapp held up one of a half-dozen Benellis that lay on a table in front of him -- "with one of these".
As for myself, I can shoot a model 12 faster than any semi auto that I have fired. Mind you hitting them is another story. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:48 am
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Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 781
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Herb Parsons was into more things than you would think from these posts....he played with extended magazines and auto loafers too.
He made and marketed an extended mag tube for the Browning A-5. I had the pleasure to shoot an A5 last week that had a Parsons extension on it. Though it was a nice gun the Parson's extension was worth more than the gun. They are expensive....if you can find one at all.
(Dave, it was one of Murphy's guns)
Jeff |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:00 pm
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311
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22-250,
Shotgunning the Art and the Science by Bob Brister, page 35:
".....throw up seven clay targets with one hand and then break them all before they could get to the ground. But Herb was an honest man.When I asked him, he admitted he accomplished his remarkable performance by holding down the trigger and, as he put it, 'pumping like hell'."
Do you have the source for your video analysis? Who conducted it? What was the resolution of the film?
Frankly, I give more credence to Brister's report than to some video analysis done in the '60s. For all we know the film resolution wasn't good enuff to allow a person to make a determination if Parson's was releasing the trigger or not.
BarkeyVA,
Parsons may have used the model 12 because Winchester never produced a decent auto until the intro of the SuperX1! And he worked for Winchester after all. :wink: |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:10 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 31
Location: West Valley Utah
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clayflingythingy wrote: |
22-250,
Shotgunning the Art and the Science by Bob Brister, page 35:
".....throw up seven clay targets with one hand and then break them all before they could get to the ground. But Herb was an honest man.When I asked him, he admitted he accomplished his remarkable performance by holding down the trigger and, as he put it, 'pumping like hell'."
Do you have the source for your video analysis? Who conducted it? What was the resolution of the film?
Frankly, I give more credence to Brister's report than to some video analysis done in the '60s. For all we know the film resolution wasn't good enuff to allow a person to make a determination if Parson's was releasing the trigger or not.
BarkeyVA,
Parsons may have used the model 12 because Winchester never produced a decent auto until the intro of the SuperX1! And he worked for Winchester after all.
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As to a source, that I do not have as of yet. I can remember reading about it though about 30+ years ago in in the American Rifleman I believe, but I'm not sure if it was there or another magazine. I'm still looking and will post if I find it. I used to think also that he held the trigger down and "pumped like hell" until I read the article. I also may and try and contact his son Lynn and see what he can say about it if I cannot find any internet/book source. I'll agree that film resolution would be a problem if not done close up in those days.
I'll agree,Winchester semi autos sucked up until the Super X-1. I happen to have two, one field grade, one Trap. Great guns once you replace the original bolt buffer. |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:24 am
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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I've got lynn's email if you need it.
Nicely listed in the book
ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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Posted:
Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:19 pm
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Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 223
Location: NW Arkansas
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Several asked about where to get the book and video.
Here is the link
http://showmanshooter.com/
I had fun watching it.
Ash |
_________________ Malam cerevisiam facieus in cathedram stercoris--Danzig Ord. c1260
Because, without beer, things do not seem to go as well- Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin Monastery Munjor, KS 1902 |
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