16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total*

I don't know if this is tied directly to Charles thread, but this past week I have been talking to ammo company reps getting information for an article I am working on.

Now you all know that I have shamelessly promoted the 16 gauge at the SHOT Show for a number of years and have had some success in getting companies to listen and we have gotten some new 16 gauge loadings out of it.

I have been pushing for a 7/8th ounce 16 gauge target load at 1150-1200 FPS for several years now.

This week, I talked to the US distributor for one brand of ammo and was told:

"That load is in the works and should be available this fall."

When talking to the rep from another company that has listened about the 16 gauge (and has been VERY pleased with the sales of 16 gauge ammo) I was told by the rep that they have two new 16 gauge loads in the works but I would have to talk to the president of the company about them.

I just got off of the phone with him and have been promised a case of lead 7/8th ounce 71/2's at 1175 FPS as soon as they roll off of the assembly line, hopefully around August 1st.

This particular company has also been doing a LOT of research on steel loads and making steel safe in older and fixed choke guns. They have a 16 gauge 7/8th ounce steel load coming out and also a 1 ounce 16 gauge steel load coming out this fall. The 7/8th ounce load will have steel 6's and 7's and the 1 ounce load will have steel 3's and 4's. They are trying to keep the PSI under 9000 so these loads will be in the 1300 FPS range.

I can't say which companies these are yet, but as soon as they tell me I can, I will post it.

The 16 is rolling on like an avalanche!

TMB
________
Jailbroken

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

That's great news. Terry. Thanks for all your efforts. Can't wait to see them bear fruit!

Great news, indeed! I just hope Charles news is in addition to this.

Thanks for sharing the good news!

Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 134

Great news, time to go find more 16ga guns Very Happy

Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 109 Location: S.W.PENNSYLVANIA

Very good news: Look out game. I will be looking for you with my old Ithaca 16ga SxS field model with some new shells. I hope to have the Pennsylvania hills ringing with the sound of a 16ga come small/upland game season in the fall.

RON

Higher lead prices and lighter shot loads go hand in hand like ham and eggs. This one was predictable. We will probably see it across the board from more 12 gauge 24 gram loads down to the 20 gauge 3/4 ounce or even 5/8 ounce loads.

Don't expect lower prices though. Most of these new offering will be advertized as the latest in low recoil premium loads with premium shot and improved wads for better performance at a premium price I'll wager. Nice to hear someone in tha ammo business is waking up to the 16 though. Thanks again Terry. Please keep us posted.

PS, lighter loads with less recoil will help folks shoot better. It's about time.

Member Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 129 Location: Alabama

IS there any information or any push for some of these loads to be available in the shorter chamber? A return to more short chamber loads for target and even non-tox loads would open up a new world in the 16ga, too...IMO.

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total*

I have been pushing for these loads for several years now. I am pleased that they have finally been promised in the 2 3/4" case.

Yes, I know the popularity of the shorter chambers, especially in the 16 gauge but for now, these are only going to be able to be handled by the smaller specialty loading companies sich as Polywad and Kent.

There is a HUGE amount of research gong on right now on various types of non-toxic shot. Not only in the shot itself, but also in the wads and powders that is equal to what was done in the early 80's when steel was first mandated.

Unfortunately, due to the litigation within our society, this also requires a huge amount of testing to make sure that the loads are safe in all guns and will not damage the guns or injure the shooters. This requires unbelieveale amounts of time and energy which translates into dollars and higher costs.

I know from my contacts within the industry especially among the smaller companies that do listen to the shooters that they realize that there is a market fort these shells right now, but unfortunately, they can't afford the amount of research that must be done to make the shells available.

For example, I know of a powder that is under development right now that will give high velocities at VERY low pressures. The powder company has been testing it for almost a year and they predict that it will be AT LEAST two years before they can release it to the ammuntion makers and then you are looking at 2-3 years of testing by the ammo makers before thay can start production with it. So we have five years before it is on the market and in use, if it passes all of the tests. If it doens't pass, there is a lot of time and money that will have to be absorbed by the companies.

I was told by an officer in one company that they tested over 40,000 shells in JUST ONE LOAD and in just one company's line of shotguns to be sure that the laod was safe and effective before they released it and this was a steel shell in the early 1980's.

The shot shell industry is in the greatest time of flux right now than it has ever been in, but the companies are trying to produce good, effective ammo at a reasonable costs. Will we see these in 2 1/2" cases? Probably not from anyone that is not already making them.
________
Babi mac

Member Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 129 Location: Alabama

Thanks. I guess my logic is thus: A 2.5" or 2 9/16" 16ga load will be usable by not ONLY short chambered guns of older make, but newre, 2 3/4" guns as well...it would seem like a win-win for the ammo makers, at least in shells where nothing is gained by extra length? I understand the major hurdles the 16ga itself is attempting to overcome with the shell mfgs...seems like broadening their market would make sense? Very Happy

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Thanks for breaking the encouraging news brdhntr. It is indeed good news.

Now I'm hoping against all hope that the new ammo will come in the form of a high quality, compression formed reloadable case. In my opinion a good reloadable case is one of the biggest drawbacks limiting the 16 ga. being used and enjoyed to it's highest potential. It ranks even higher I think, than the need for better (read more affordable) non-tox ammo as many, many, more rounds are expended by 16 ga. gunners annually at clay targets than at game birds on non-tox only areas. I, like many here do both, but infinitely more clays. And with fuel prices being what they are I might at some point sadly be forced to cut back on the trips to far away non-tox bird filled areas and do more skeet shooting closer to home.

I guess I don't fault the ammo companies for wanting to be efficient and profitable, which results in the less reloadable hulls. And I guess to hope for a good hull may be unrealistic, because why would they produce a great hull that we would reload many times hence, lowering the frequency and quanities of new already loaded ammo they could sell us when we want to buy and shoot new ones to get empties?

We enjoy our svelt, great handling 16's which are perfect for the niche they perform so well in. We're making progress but still suffer some matter of fact disadvantages in the ammo aspect. I'll keep enjoying mine until it absolutely becomes impractical. I hope that day never comes. I'm willing to suffer some inconvenience to enjoy a gun I shoot better than any other I've ever owned.

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total*

I still can't say who is going to be making the ammo, but I can say that I have reloaded the cases very successfully with a number of different loads.

No, they won't be a one piece compression formed case.

I haven't been able to substantiate it, but I have heard from several sources in the ammuntion industy that Winchester refused bids to buy the machinery needed to make their16 gauge compression formed cases (and the WAA-16 wad) and that the machinery was sold for scrap.

Given Winchester's record in the past, I can believe it!

GG, I don't fault your logic with the cases. We as dedicated 16 gausge shooters know our guns and our ammo. However, the average hunter, even one who is pursuing game with a 16 gauge simply would not understand the shorter cases and would not by them. Yes, they can be made ballistically equal to a 23/4 inch case, but the average Joe will buy what he knows. I hunted with a guy this past year who told me that he used to hunt with a 16 gauge, but he couldn't get any decent ammo anymore (Big 3) so he quit. I gave him a couple of boxes of Fiocchi Golden Pheasant in 16 gauge for pheasants and a couple of boxes of their 1 ounce 71/2's for quail. He contacted me after the season to find out where he could buy more of that ammo so he could hunt with a 16 gauge again.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I also understand the manufacturer's side of things. For now, we'll have to live with the 2 3/4" cases.

BTW- I was told by the president of an ammo company just this week that with the price of lead what it is and the price of various blends of steel pellets actually coming down, for the first time in the history of his company, he can produce steel loads for less than lead loads.

TMB
________
Native american spirituality forums

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 238 Location: Lodi, CA

Great information!

Could you talk a little about the new non-toxic shot research you are hearing about?

Also, I am interested in the modifications to steel that you hinted at. Steel just seems like such a poor material for a pellet (transfer of energy, weight, mass, etc...).

Thanks!

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

"This particular company has also been doing a LOT of research on steel loads and making steel safe in older and fixed choke guns."

When you say 'safe' do you mean from a pressure standpoint, barrel steel hardness standpoint or both?-Dick

Member Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 451 Location: La-Tx

Any steel shot load under 1500 fps is a waste of time and money. Lead will probably be outlawed within the next 10-15 years if not sooner so a good steel load for the 16 is needed.