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< 16ga. Guns ~ Advice on what classic entry level 16ga SxS to buy? |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:35 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Nordern MN
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Hello,
I'm new here, but not new to 16ga guns. I grew up watching dad hunt with them and it's either genetic or contagious, because I'm a chronic 16ga shooter. I've got a savage fox model B, an 870, and a 97, but it's time to take a real step. I'm trying to determine what to pursue in the $600-1600 range. I've never fondled a parker I didn't like, so Trojan is on the list. I understand L.C. Smith and Ithaca doubles can sometimes be found in the $600 range. Double triggers are fine, must be pistol grip, and barrels no shorter than 28", 30" would be better. I'll probably use it for ducks, grouse and woodcock primarily. I know it's a sin, but I would probably open the chokes if I had to. I live in the UP of MI, on the WI border, so as far as I know, I'm not real close to any great double gun shops. I'd like the chance to handle a variety of makes prior to choosing one.
Thanks for any advice you can offer.
NR |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:54 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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97, the Smiths and Ithacas are the least expensive of the classics, but you'd be lucky to find a really good 16 for $600. Maybe increase that by 50% or so. With Ithacas, the Flues guns (SN lower than 425,000) can be nice for upland birds, but they're not built for waterfowling. The New Ithaca Doubles (SN above 425,000) and the later Smiths are the ones to look at if you want a gun for both ducks and grouse. Parker Trojan OK too, as is Fox Sterlingworth, although for guns in the same condition, the Parker or Fox will probably set you back about $500 more than an Ithaca or Elsie. If you waterfowl with your classic double, bite the bullet and spend the extra money for some of Kent's Tungsten Matrix loads. Good stuff, and unlike steel, they won't hurt the barrels of those old doubles.
You'll likely have to do some looking, because many of the old doubles have stocks that are too low for most of today's shooters. But if you find one that's right for you, you have some good times ahead. |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:03 am
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Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
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Larry,
Some sage advice.
I read somewhere that Elsie field grades wouldn't hold up to a steady diet of waterfowl loads, hence the large number of Smiths with stock cracks behind the action. But that this was not an issue with the higher grades since they were originally stocked with much denser European walnut.
Is this true? Can anyone clarify which grade was the cutoff for black vs Euro walnut?
Pete |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:56 pm
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Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 7
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You can probably find a really nice Lefever nitro special or a hunter arms fulton special in your lower price range.at the top you can probably buy a sound trojan but not a pretty one! L.Cs are getting a bit out of hand too. |
_________________ NRA Lifer,hammergun enthusiast |
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Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:10 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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Steinauge is right about the Fultons and Nitros (Ithaca Western Long Range as well). Prices have gone up on them too, but not nearly as much as on the Foxes and Parkers.
One of the problems with Elsies is inherent in the gun's design, the result being cracks behind the lock plates. I've also heard that you don't see it as often in higher grade guns, but I wonder if that's simply because there are so many Field Grades out there in comparison to the graded guns. Had not heard that it was due to a different type or quality of wood. Part of the issue might be more careful fitting and finishing on the higher grade guns. About the time Fox came out with their famed Super Fox, Elsie came out with a Long Range Wildfowl gun, built a lot stouter than their standard guns, for the then-new, hotter, Super X loads. 12 only. But if you want to shoot heavy loads in a vintage 16, I'd recommend one of the later, Marlin-made LC's, or one of the Ithaca NID's. |
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Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:38 am
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Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
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Foursquare wrote: |
I read somewhere that Elsie field grades wouldn't hold up to a steady diet of waterfowl loads
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Found at least part of the reference, though I had dis-remembered the mechanism of failure.
In _Shotguns and Shooting_ by McIntosh, pg 19 he says that black walnut is much stiffer than euro and therefore doesn't flex under recoil. He blames this inability to dampen the shock for the typical L C Smith "cracked head".
I'm still looking for the reference about higher grades being stocked with euro.
Pete |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:46 pm
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
Location: ohio
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Gandermountian,Canton Ohio has a Ithaca SXS for $500 . CAll them for info. Get there number on the WEBSITE |
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